Paddy Burke (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister to the House and wish her well with the passage of this important Bill. I congratulate her on the tremendous work she has done over a difficult period in recent months.

I support Senator Craughwell in what he said regarding Oireachtas Members. I would add that while we pay PRSI at the K class, which is the same rate as an S class, there are no benefits to us from it. It does not even qualify a person to sign for credits. A person who lost his or her seat in the Seanad or the Dáil at the last election or previous elections cannot even sign for credits. That is an outrage. It leaves some of them in a very poor state because, as we have seen with the pandemic, there are no jobs available and there are no places for them to get a job. The Minister needs to closely examine this area.

I want to raise another issue with the Minister regarding the two weeks pay per year of service in redundancy that must be paid. I refer in particular to self-employed people and sole traders. When a business closes down there is no protection for the sole trader or the self-employed person. There are protections for a person who is involved in a company or who owns a company. The company can go into liquidation or voluntary liquidation but there is no such protection for the sole trader. In 2003, an Act provided that two weeks pay per year of service had to be paid for each member of staff if they were been laid off either through redundancy or the closing of the business. However, at that time there was clawback of 60% or 70%. However, around 2014 the then Minister, Michael Noonan, got rid of the clawback which means self-employed people, whether they close their business or downsize it, have to pay two weeks salary per year of service for each person they had employed. Since I raised this issue, I have received considerable correspondence from many people who were self-employed and from those in employment. When the downturn came they had to downsize or, in many cases, close their businesses. As a result of the pandemic, many businesses will not open their doors again. The consequences for those people is that if they cannot pay their employees' redundancy of two weeks per year of service, the State will pay it for them, but the State will come looking for its pound of flesh at the end of the day. What can the poor unfortunate person do in those circumstances? The only asset they have left is the family home, which will be taken from them after they die or whenever. I will introduce a Private Members’ Bill providing that the family home should be excluded in those circumstances. The best way to proceed would be to bring back the clawback provision because the current position has serious consequences. A man contacted me who could not keep his business going, he got rid of some of his staff and had to cash in his private pension to cover their redundancy payments. He still was not able to make a go of the business and had to make a further allocation, which the Government paid because he had pleaded inability to pay, but now the State is looking for it out of his estate. I raised the matter with the Minister’s predecessor and was told when the man dies or when his wife dies, that money will be taken out of his estate. This issue has many of consequences in that there may be other family members in the home or children with disabilities and if the family home is sold that will have consequences. It could have other consequences where the fair deal scheme could come into play for elderly people. I ask the Minister to examine this area or she might support the Bill I intend to bring forward. How does an employer make provision for something like this? Any person who is self-employed or a sole trader can run into difficulties. They can have many staff employed. How do they plan for providing for staff ten or 20 years down the road when a huge sum of money may have to paid out? There can be many consequences. The Minister's Department has said that it will consider the Bill I will bring forward when it is published. I thank the Minister and wish her well with this Bill.