Gerard Craughwell (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister to the House and join colleagues in congratulating her, her predecessor and her officials. Without doubt they have taken on a mammoth task and performed above and beyond the call of duty. It was amazing to hear the Minister outline the figures. Figures tend to baffle people, and we tend to switch off when we hear them, but today she delivered them well, and they give us some idea of the mammoth task she has undertaken. I wish her well for the most part as she goes forward.

I have one slight issue with the Bill, namely class K PRSI. I hope to table an amendment on this, which I hope the Minister will consider. The social insurance system operates through the Social Insurance Fund, and contributions are paid into the fund to finance a range of contributory social insurance benefits, pensions and other payments.There is also provision for the Exchequer to subvent the fund if expenditure exceeds income. Since 1979, the term "pay-related social insurance" has been used to describe the social insurance within the Minister's Department. Five social insurance schemes fall into three categories, namely, contributory social insurance schemes, non-contributory or mean-tested schemes and childcare benefits. Social assistance arrangements are on a means-tested basis and do not form part of the Social Insurance Fund. Similarly, the child benefit payment does not form part of the Social Insurance Fund. I wish to focus is solely on contributory social insurance schemes, particularly class K.

The only people subject to class K PRSI are Oireachtas Members and holders of public office. We have already had to go to the courts regarding class K PRSI for city and county councillors. Thankfully, it did not result in a court case. Rather, the Government moved to change county councillors onto class S PRSI. For most people in this House, class K PRSI means nothing one way or the other. We have a good job with a good salary and are well looked after while we are here. However, not all Members will be here for the full 20 years' service needed in order to acquire a pension. Not all Members will be here after serving their first term. It is the ones who are not here, those who lost their seats in the election, about whom I am most concerned.

We are in the middle of a pandemic; that is for sure. Some former Members of the Oireachtas lost their Dáil or Seanad seats last February or last April. Having lost their seats, they found that they had no social insurance to fall back on. They had no welfare entitlements other than those under the means-tested allowance system. It is pretty horrendous to think that, after four years' service to the State, one has nothing to show for it and nothing to gain from it. It is not just the individual Members of this House who lose out; it is also their families. It is about the long-term impact that class K PRSI has inflicted on those of us who serve the State through the Oireachtas, the Judiciary or various other forms of public office. At the end of one's period in office, such as if one serves only one term in the Oireachtas, for example, not only has one damaged one's social protection record in terms of entitlement to payments, one has also damaged one's entitlement to long-term payments such as the contributory old age pension, maternity entitlements and entitlements to various optical and dental benefits.

This issue simply was not examined properly back in 2011. Indeed, the Tánaiste, Deputy Varadkar, raised the issue in 2011 when he asked what class K gives us? Absolutely nothing. There are no benefits from it. We are paying exactly the same amount of our income as a person on class S or class A. That is simply wrong in every sense of the word. Former Deputy Sandra McLellan asked a similar question of the then Tánaiste and Minister for Social Protection, Joan Burton. The response of the then Tánaiste was that there is jobseeker's allowance. There may be jobseeker's allowance, but if one moves onto a jobseeker's allowance, it does nothing to the damaged record one leaves behind and it does nothing to the loss of income one's family is suffering as a result. I know the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, is very much up to speed on this issue and is concerned about it. One must remember that holders of public office are well paid, but when one loses one's seat, one has nothing. It is really depressing to speak to some former Members of this House and to see how desperately impacted they have been as a result of Covid-19. They are not even able to look for a job now.

I do not wish to impede the passage of the Bill. I wish to support the Minister in every way I can because there are hundreds of thousands of people depending on the Bill and the way it is driven through the House.She does not need to be harassed or harangued over a very small number of people. We are talking about a tiny number of people in the grand scheme of things. I do not believe that any Member of this House or any public office holder should fail to make a contribution to the Social Insurance Fund. We should and it is quite right that we do. Those who are unfortunate enough to lose their seat after one term should be able to fall back on the benefits to which they are entitled and their social welfare record must not be damaged. That is the most important aspect of this.

There is a discussion to be had in this House with respect to how we manage the pension entitlements, for example, of Members who have served. We cannot have a situation where somebody leaves the Oireachtas on a full Oireachtas pension and also has an entitlement to a contributory old age pension. That would be anathema to those on much lower incomes and those who depend solely on the State pension. There is a discussion to be had on that but we need to do something straight away for those who were unfortunate enough in February and April to lose their seats. It is distressing to think that people who held a position of high esteem in the nation are suddenly unemployed but not entitled to any payment. I believe the Minister cares about this and perhaps we can work on it without requiring an amendment to be brought through the House. I am willing to discuss it with her. I know she has an interest in it and wants to ensure that everybody is treated equally in this country. That is my sole issue of concern.

I compliment her on everything she has provided for in the Bill, especially for the islands. I spent a lot of my youth visiting the islands with my father and compliment the Minister on the provisions in the Bill for them.