Gerard Craughwell (Independent) | Oireachtas source

The Minister is very welcome to the House. Massachusetts Institute of Technology is world-renowned. Nobody ever had to call it a university. I was president of the Teachers Union of Ireland, TUI, when we started the technological university drive. I was not convinced. I am still not convinced we need to refer to these institutions as universities. The previous speaker, Senator Byrne, spoke of the tremendous record of the regional technical colleges, which subsequently became the IOTs, and now we are driving them forward as technological universities.

If I may step back a little, Deputy Harris is also the Minister with responsibility for further education. I am delighted to see that because a man with his drive and energy is what is needed. I was always impressed by his drive when he was in the Department of Health and I hope he brings the same to this portfolio. The further education sector was starved from the time it came about and we all know that it came about through osmosis. There were schools with empty classrooms looking for courses to fill them. The one problem we had, and this will be a challenge for the Minister, is as follows. My courses were in the area of computer network systems and operating systems. I remember that a student would get a level 6 qualification in my college, would progress to one of the Dublin colleges, typically, and would have to go back and do the level 6 course because level 6 in further education and level 6 in higher education were not the same, even though they were. On the national framework there was nothing to separate them. We therefore have to see much closer co-operation between further education and higher education, and particularly now that we have technological universities, we have to do that. In the technological university sphere we also have to do what is being done internationally, that is, we have to hold vocational education and academic education as peer equals. We have to ensure we have pathways whereby a student can move from a vocational trajectory over to an academic one and back to the vocational one if that is what he or she wants to do. We have to have vocational qualifications that go to level 10. If we are really serious about tackling the future in education, that is where we need to go.

I will now speak about TU Dublin. I was extremely impressed by the attitude taken by my members of the TUI at the time and the management at governing bodies in DIT, IT Blanchardstown and IT Tallaght. The work they did together to get that organisation off the ground was incredible. There were difficulties - I will not pretend there were not - but there was a level of co-operation and the mantra seemed to be "solve the problems, whatever they are" rather than finishing up in the Labour Court, the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, or whatever else. They did a tremendous job, and I am really proud to see it up and running, even though I have some misgivings about the idea.

Let us move on. We are one month away from the creation of Munster Technological University, and today its representatives were in the Workplace Relations Commission. They will be there for I do not know how long more. Somebody needs to go and knock heads together and get the differences that exist between staff and the management out of the way and get this project up and running if this is the direction we are going in. Incidentally, the same applies to Carlow and Waterford. There were cosmetic differences, for the want of a better description, between the two colleges there. Both are excellent institutions but for one reason or another, the nonsense of "they are not as good as us" or "we are better than them" crept in. We need to get that out of the way, knock heads together and move the project on. I want to see the south east develop as well. I still have misgivings about the notion of technological universities but now that we have committed to it, let us drive it forward quickly.

Regarding the staff and staffing, my colleague has referred to the issue of teaching contracts. The one thing that held back the IOTs was the fact that those who were employed in them were employed as lecturers within the system. They were employed in order to deliver programmes in classrooms or lecture halls. There was no real facility for research. A lot of research went on but there was no real facility for it. A lot of it involved ad hocarrangements and the like. We need to drive that forward with contracts of employment that ring-fence hours for research within the system. I want to see that happen.

The moneys the Minister announced, the €90 million, are relatively new, from what I gather.We were expecting these institutes to work within their own budgets to try to put together technological universities, so I am pleased to see that the Minister has put this money in place. It is a great step forward. Going back to further education, I hope the Minister has some money for that area as well. When he is rooting around in his pockets at some stage, he might find it. That really is important.

The ability to borrow in order to carry out research and to develop colleges is a fantastic idea. The one thing I would like to see is additional funding for innovation centres associated with each of the TUs in order that we can get microbusinesses to develop within the university structure and then perhaps branch out, as has happened in UCD, DCU and other colleges.

I have a concern about the Connacht-Ulster Alliance. It goes back to a meeting I had with the president of Letterkenny Institute of Technology many years ago. His favourite option was to link up with the University of Ulster. I know there is a problem with respect to the fact that Brexit is coming down the road and we are no longer one big happy family within the EU. The point he made to me at the time is no different today than it was then. He said if a meeting was called in GMIT, in Renmore in Galway, it was a day's drive down to attend the meeting, stay overnight and then a day's drive back. He said that is nonsense when he could just drive across the Border and have a meeting with the University of Ulster. As part of a shared island forum, we need to develop the east-west relationships that should exist in terms of the University of Ulster and Donegal.

The connection between Galway and Sligo is pushing it as far as one really can. Galway, Mayo and Sligo involve quite a chunk of the country. The connection between Athlone and Limerick is a bit odd geographically. They do not sit neatly together but, nonetheless, I am delighted to see that they have come into the frame as well and that they are working in that particular area.

I got hung for this shortly after I came into the Oireachtas when I wrote an article about the delivery of educational programmes. I would like to see educational programmes delivered from 9 a.m. until 9 p.m. My colleague, Senator Byrne, referred to modular programmes where one can opt in and opt out.

I will finish now. At the end of the day I wish the Minister well as he goes forward with this programme. I think he is the man to drive it. I would be happy to assist in any way I can, provided I am not shot by my former union members as I leave here today. Like Senator Byrne, I also want to see much longer days for the delivery of education and more accessibility.