Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank Members for their contributions and for the points they have raised, all of which I have taken note of and some of which I will do my best to respond to today. We can come back to some of the others on Monday, but all of the points have been taken on board.

At the outset, I will mention an issue which was raised by a Senator today. I refer to a very tragic death in the vicinity of this House. I am loath to comment on specific cases, as the Senator may understand, because each case is a tragedy for the family of the person involved and for his or her case worker if he or she had been engaging with emergency services. I feel it acutely when people die in such tragic circumstances. We discussed aspects of this matter in this House last night as well. It is important that people know that this specific tragedy is unrelated to emergency services and emergency bed facilities. There is emergency bed capacity in every city in this country. There was spare capacity last night. We have made sure that our winter plan is in place. My priority, above planning processes, development plans, Covid and all else, is to eradicate homelessness and to keep our most vulnerable people safe during the pandemic. I commend all of those workers who are on the front line every single day of the week in our local authorities. I meet many of them in the Dublin authorities regularly. I have a homelessness task force including all homelessness partners which convenes weekly. I want to put that on the record of this House but I will say no more about it to respect the privacy of that individual and his family.

With regard to the points that have been raised, there has been a lot of discussion around our plans vis-à-vispublic consultation, whether in person or online. Perhaps I was not as clear as I might have been, although I thought I was, but meetings under section 11(3)(b) relate to issues at the consultation stage of development plans. This is the preliminary, pre-draft stage which involves very little consultation, if any.In my view, this would improve that further. Obviously, Members will have the course of the week to look at that, but it will be open to authorities to hold online or in-person meetings, or both, into the future, and that is why I think it is a good thing. I have seen that consultation work very well.

The Senator rightly discussed, as did Senator Cummins, bringing in newer generations and people who do not necessarily tend to engage with these types of process, and I see Senator Dolan and others agreeing. We want to get more people involved, increase access and have more transparent meetings. Many council meetings are streamed live, for example, my own local authority in Fingal and that of Senator Currie has been streaming both area and full committee meetings for years, and that is a good thing. It does not exclude anyone, and I would not be so presumptuous or ageist to say that just because people are older, they will not be able to access meetings or will not have the ability to do so. I think that is incorrect. Some have alluded to the idea of where there is an older population, they may not be able to access online meetings, but I disagree. My own father is 85 years of age and is more than capable of accessing many different things, including meetings. The point is that this concerns the pre-draft stage, and it relates to development plans only, but what it might do is help in other consultations, and I have seen it in practice.

Senator Currie has made a very fair point about other consultations and how they are managed and following good procedure within them. It is not just a case of putting all the information online and leaving it to people. It requires us to do more, and that is why I signed an order, and went further and issued draft standing orders from my Department to every single local authority to permit them to hold their meetings remotely, in person or using a combination of both, if they wish. It is up to each local authority to adopt these orders, to bring in their own standing orders, and they can even decide vote remotely. There were some criticisms initially, with people claiming that this was a diminution of local government, and I cannot understand why anyone would say that. If anything, it makes it safer for people, potentially, but it leaves it up to the local authorities themselves to decide how they want to do it.

Many points have been raised and I will speak on a few items. On the issue of construction and all its ancillary services, I was slightly concerned when a few Senators spoke of their desire to pause the planning process. We fought very hard to have construction and ancillary services remain open during level 5 restrictions, and there is a reason for that. The initial shutdown earlier this year has actually meant that our housing delivery will be substantially behind what we need, with somewhere in the region of 16,000 to 18,000 housing completions being delivered in total by the end of the year when we need to be building and delivering about 33,000 per annum, based on the ESRI research that my own Department commissioned. We are living with this pandemic at the moment and there is light at the end of the tunnel, thankfully, and there is good news in respect of vaccines, but we are going to be living in this type of scenario right into next year. I think it was Senator Higgins who raised the point of pausing planning right now, but I think that would be an absolutely retrograde step. There is nothing to be feared from what is being brought in today. If anything, it creates a more transparent system and, as has been mentioned by Senator Dolan, a hybrid type system, which is what I would encourage people to do to allow more people to be involved.

Senator Boyhan raised a number of points in respect of a sunset clause, as did a number of other Senators, including Senator Moynihan. I do not believe we need a sunset clause. It relates to section 11(3)(b), which is the pre-draft stage, so maybe they want to consider that, but I have taken the points raised by the Senators. From our perspective, we do need these measures brought in quite urgently, and I explained at the outset the issue with pre-legislative scrutiny. I cannot have a situation whereby, if there was an outbreak of Covid, and we hope that does not happen, in a particular planning authority or in An Bord Pleanála and staff are affected, the planning or building control system and the operation of it would be put at risk. That is why we need these measures to be put in place.

The Residential Tenancies Board, RTB, data amendment contained in the Bill simply allows those hearings to be carried out online to allow them continue. It is obviously not the optimum as we move through the pandemic, but it is to allow it.

In advance of Monday, just so Members are clear on the amendment that will be tabled, a draft of which I have with me, although I am not moving it now, obviously, as we are on Second Stage, it clearly states that a local authority shall consult with members of the public in such a manner which shall include the holding of a public meeting or an online public meeting, so it is one or the other, as it considers appropriate. Obviously members of local authorities will have an input into that. It also states that a local authority can invite submissions in writing from members of the public in relation to a proposed development plan, so it is at the pre-development stage, not when the draft is published, although I would expect and think it would be appropriate at that stage as well. The vast bulk, if not all, of our local authority meetings at the draft stage, when members are actually engaging with the development plan, are open to the public to see what is happening, or they are open to submissions. We want to see that.

Senator Burke raised the issue of resources for An Bord Pleanála and other pieces. The marine planning and development Bill is well advanced, but that issue is outside the remit of this debate, but I will talk to him separately about it.

I thank the Senators for their time because they have been most accommodating and constructive in respect of two important pieces of legislation that have been passed recently. I do intend to continue to initiate legislation here because the debate here really informs what we can do in the Dáil and how we may move and tweak pieces of legislation. With the co-operation of the Senators, I will certainly be doing that again. A Senator mentioned the potential use of the guillotine procedure on Monday. The Order of Business of this House is a matter for this House itself, and it has nothing to do with me. I get a sense that the vast bulk of Members here today support the thrust of this legislation and understand the urgent need for it to be passed. I therefore thank them for their co-operation today. I have noted all the points that have been raised, even though I have not been able to cover all of them, but I will respond to other points on Monday.