Paul Gavan (Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I wish to comment briefly on this section because it is crucial in terms of the interactions we have been having with victims and survivors of these institutions. One of the key points survivors continuously make is that their voices are not being heard or listened to. They have been very clear as to why Tusla is not an appropriate place in which to deposit this information. Members who have read the horrifying testimonies that have come in over the last few days know exactly what they are talking about.

I wish to make two points to the Minister. The first relates to process. There is no way the Minister would have had the time or the availability in the last couple of days to go through those testimonies. It is just not possible because of this rushed process. These people are being ignored once again. That is a choice the Minister made. The second is that their key request is not to deposit the information in Tusla. The Minister has ignored that as well. It is tragic and at the same time somewhat shocking that we have a new Government in place that is once again ignoring the voices of these people. I am genuinely shocked that a Green Party Minister would facilitate this.

The evidence is clear. I know from my time as a member of the education committee last year and from meeting some of the victims how appallingly they have been treated and how they have been shut out by Tusla, yet the Minister is ignoring their voice on this absolutely central issue. With the greatest respect, regarding the promise that he will fix it somehow later with more legislation, if he was in their shoes would he believe himself as Minister? I do not doubt the Minister personally but we know how the institutions work here. We know how they like to close down people's voices. They have been shut out for decades. Unfortunately, I still see that culture in key Departments. That is the truth of the matter. I do not see any evidence that it is changing.

This is a central part of the Bill, and it is wrong. The Minister does not have to take our word for it. A multitude of people, some of whom are outside today, are begging the Minister not to do this and not to leave them, once again, to twist in the wind and to have to approach Tusla and basically to be denied at every step and turn of the way. This is critical. If the Minister really wants to engage, he must accept what we are saying. This process is appalling in terms of how quickly the Minister is trying to railroad this Bill through. It is a disservice to this Chamber but it is an absolute shame with regard to the victims of State and church institutions.