Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party) | Oireachtas source

I thank all Senators for their contributions. It is justifiable to recognise Senator Boyhan's contributions as he is someone who has experienced some of the matters about which we are talking today and brings that sense of personal experience to this debate. To reassure him, I have sought the advice of the Attorney General at all stages of this process. I would not do otherwise.

After our debate on Wednesday, I spent a lot of time reflecting on Senator McDowell's contribution and, particularly, on Senator Boyhan's contribution as it came from someone who wants to see this information come out and who also has dealt with and assisted survivors who were incredibly vulnerable and who, subsequent to their experiences in the institutions, had experiences with arms of the State that left them numb, cold and very traumatised. Yesterday I saw the documents issued by the confidential committee which explain its role. These documents certainly convey a strong sense of the importance of the confidentiality of the stories of those who attended the confidential committee. "Stories" was the term used rather than "testimonies" as they were their individual personal stories,

In our debate on Wednesday I was also very struck by a particular concept. Senator Ruane put it best when she said these people were told but never asked. The idea of agency is really important in this matter. When women were put into mother and baby homes and when their children were subsequently taken out, their agency was completely denied. Agency continues to be denied in significant parts of the process of the commission of investigation. We can blame the 2004 Act or the 2015 resolution, but it is fair to recognise that it is definitely the case. The issue is the agency of those who gave their personal stories before the confidential committee as regards what they wanted to happen to their personal stories. Do they want them inscribed in the archives under their names forever and available in 30 years? Were they people who, despite the huge act of courage it took to give their stories, never wanted to hear anything about them again? There are different views on that.

Since our previous debate, that balance has been to the forefront of my mind and yesterday I engaged with the Attorney General with a view to bringing forward amendments in the Dáil that would allow for the commission to ascertain the views of those who attended the confidential committee as to whether they wish to remain anonymous. This amendment could achieve the goals we all seek to achieve. Such an amendment would be based on that concept of agency and the concept that survivors should get to make the decision. For me, that is particularly important. I want Senator Boyhan to know that he has been heard as regards the issues he has raised with me. Regarding the need to legislate quickly, the commission has informed me that it is ready to submit its final report on 30 October as per its last extension. As every Senator knows, the commission has sought a number of extensions and is now years beyond its original timeframe. We need to see that report delivered. Senators will be aware that the report will then have to go through a process of examination by the Attorney General. I believe I will also be able to refer it to the Garda, a matter on which questions have been asked a number of times. Following a decision of the Cabinet, the report will be released.

An extension is based on a request from the commission, which has always been made through interim reports. We have received no interim report seeking an extension this time. We have been told that the report will be ready on 30 October. If any interim report was received, it would still have to be considered by the Government. A test is set out in the legislation as regards the factors on which an extension would be granted by the Government.

If the commission reports on 30 October and this Bill is not passed, the database will be sealed in the archive. That would be a tragedy. The database would be a beneficial tool in terms of what Tusla does currently and, in particular, the information and tracing legislation, which the House agrees needs to be implemented.

One or two specific questions were asked. Senator Dolan asked about access to funding for groups. I am willing to consider that matter. When we get the commission's report, it will be detailed and will make extensive recommendations. Once we are able to publish it, we will probably act in that context. Much of what has been referenced in our debates and some of the amendments relates to the wider measures to be taken to address the legacy issues, for example, the creation of a distinct national archive. Many Senators have pointed to the site on Seán MacDermott Street. I met Dr. Maeve O'Rourke and Deputy Gannon a number of weeks ago to discuss that suggestion and they outlined the vision for me. I am open to that.

Senator Mullen asked about the Ryan report. I am not an expert on it and it does not fall within my Department's remit, given that it remains with the Department of Justice and Equality, but my understanding is that the legal framework involved was different. I do not believe that its commission was established under the 2004 Act. Am I correct in saying that, Senator McDowell?