Seanad debates

Wednesday, 14 October 2020

Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and certain related Matters) Records, and another Matter, Bill 2020: Second Stage

 

10:30 am

Photo of Mary Seery KearneyMary Seery Kearney (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister. The Mother and Baby Homes Commission of Investigation was established to provide a full account of what happened to women and children across named mother and baby homes and four county homes between 1922 and 1998.The personal experiences I have watched, heard and read about thus far were undoubtedly harrowing. At no point in our remarks in the House should we lose sight of the absolute suffering of women and children and their lifelong experience, their state of not knowing and the abuse and hardship they endured. There were also those who did not have long lives and whose remains were treated so despicably and appallingly.

The commission's interim reports, particularly the fifth one, indicate an Ireland that was harsh and judgmental and that had no compassion. While the focus of the investigation is rightly on the actions of the institutions, we, as a society, either expressly or otherwise - and I appreciate the complexity of the word "otherwise" in that context - colluded to condemn women and children to lifelong suffering and torment. Children did not know their mothers or the circumstances of their separation from them. For mothers, there was the unspeakable pain of not knowing what happened to their children. In many instances, the mother and child were condemned to lifelong abuse, hardship and slavery. This is our shameful history. When the report comes out, I have no doubt we will recoil from the horror of it. Our State and people stood by and were involved in the infliction of terrible pain.

I want to remind us of what the commission set out to do. It was to establish the circumstances and arrangements surrounding single women in these institutions, all of the relevant decisions taken and their agency within those decisions. It was also to examine their living and care arrangements and the mortality rates as compared to the national law and to investigate whether the institutions were compliant with regulatory and ethical standards of vaccine trials. It was also to examine how children became residents without their parents, how they left the care of their parents and their mothers, what were the child welfare measures and how those women made their decisions and the lack of full, free and informed consent. Within this is also the systemic treatment of people on the basis of their religion, race, membership of the Traveller community or disability.

I fully support that we need a national memorial and archive in Sheriff Street - I am completely behind the proposals in that regard - but right now we are dealing with the commission. To get individuals to come forward to it and state, with clarity, their experiences and everything that surrounded the experience and the lead-up to what happened in their lives, they were assured confidentiality. The terms of reference set out that the commission was not set up to establish an account of individual cases in such manner that would intervene and-or assist individuals to resolve questions relating to their identity or trace their birth relatives. In fact, the frequently asked questions section of the website very clearly states the commission will not help people who were adopted from these institutions to trace their identity and birth relatives and that the commission has no role in resolving identity and tracing relatives. The website refers individuals with such inquiries to Tusla and the AAI.

When the final report issues at the end of this month, the commission will cease to exist. At that moment, a decision needs to be made on the records and database compiled in the course of the commission's work. Without the Bill, these records cannot be transferred unless redacted. If redacted, they will be of no use or assistance to anyone attempting to access the valuable information in the database created by the commission during the course of its work. The law, as it stands, will not allow this unredacted transfer and the Bill is about dealing with this.

The commission was established under the Commissions of Investigation Act 2004. The Act predates the commission by 11 years and predates today's Bill by 16. The establishment of the commission occurred under the Act and its powers flow from the Act.The treatment of evidence and records is prescribed by that Act and the implications of records being sealed for 30 years were envisaged in it, for a well thought-out and good reason. We cannot turn back time or change the law. The evidence that has been given and the records created through the lens of the provisions of the Act cannot suddenly be subject to a change in the legislative conditions. Were the rules to be suddenly changed after the fact, it would render any future commission of inquiry untrustworthy and impotent.

I disagree with Senator McDowell, who expressed the view that what is being done tears up the confidentiality. It moves to secure it. I believe that what the Minister intends to achieve in future legislation, about which I have heard him talk, will address any anomalies or other matters that arise. The evidence was heard in private and in confidence, and confidentiality still applies.

We are receiving thousands of communications on this. I have had over 4,000 emails at this stage from people who are hurting in many instances, and from others who no doubt are well intentioned and want support to be given. What they call for, however, is not addressed by today's Bill. The wrong that they claim is being perpetrated is neither being perpetrated under this Bill nor exacerbated by it. Those from whom we did not receive an email are the contributors who want to remain anonymous and who have participated on the condition that their evidence would be kept confidential, as provided for in the 2004 Act.

I believe in the Minister. I believe he is sincere with regard to addressing how people are assisted in tracing their identity and relatives. I believe him with regard to his intentions and I believe he will set up an authority. I believe his statement that there will be a national archive. Today's Bill is about the database of the commission. It seeks to preserve that invaluable database, not to put it beyond reach. It places it in the care of Tusla. While I question that, the more I have read and thought about this since the Minister's very fine briefing the other day, the more I believe that Tusla is the correct recipient for the time being. The law, as it currently stands, prohibits access and disclosure by the Department. The Bill cannot amend that, nor should it. The Bill is about the preservation of the database. I commend it to the House.

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