Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank Senator Higgins for tabling this amendment. I know she probably spoke to the first amendment more than the second. I understand that she has genuine issues around that and that she wants to have a genuine conversation. The Senator makes extremely valid arguments about choice and the conversations we must have. I am afraid we cannot have them with this Bill because I am not in charge of the banks, but it is a conversation worth having and it is an issue that has been debated in this House.

The Ministers for Finance and for Public Expenditure and Reform will always say it is appropriate that every company, not necessarily only the banks, should pay the correct amount of tax. That conversation is taking place all over the world, not only in Ireland. The Senator has a particular view on it, and she makes some valid points, but I am afraid I cannot facilitate that conversation in this legislation because our main priority and focus is to get lending out to SMEs that need it. We all genuinely believe that if we can make money available at lower interest rates and with different conditions, the scheme will be more successful and more businesses will draw it down. This is about giving a guarantee. The Senator spoke about profits and she is right, but if this scheme works and the money gets out to businesses which are then able to stay open and create jobs, there will not be a draw on the State.

Senator Higgins is in a different conversation, one about banks, profits and so on which is not necessarily part of this discussion. The whole aim of the European framework and the changes to it proposed in this scheme, is to pass on the interest rate reduction to businesses. They are the beneficiaries of this guarantee, not the banks. We are using the banks to channel the funding because that is the most cost-effective way to do this. We can reach customers quickly because we want to get this funding out within the framework timeline of December of this year. It is important that we do that. While I can relay the Senator's message to the Minister for Finance, I cannot address her concerns in this legislation. That is my response to her first amendment.

The amendment before us is on the need for reporting. That is not necessary and I will oppose the amendment. The Department keeps all programmes under review and the credit guarantee is kept under review, specifically with regard to this scheme. I assure Senator Higgins that the Strategic Banking Corporation of Ireland, SBCI, will operate the scheme and monitor all the loan portfolios. If a finance provider is not using the scheme for its customers or passing on the interest rate reduction, the operator may reallocate part of the funding under the scheme to another finance provider.

I made the point earlier that the conversation is with the three main pillar banks, after which there is an open call for the rest. If a provider secures a portion of this guarantee and does not use it or its customers do not want it because they have not been given good terms, we can reapportion that funding. We will deal with that issue. The SBCI, with which we will be in regular contact, will do that on behalf of the Department.

Likewise, the Tánaiste has met the banks to discuss this and we and our officials will meet them again as we complete the design of this scheme over the next couple of weeks. The purpose of this legislation is to ensure money is made available to the various sectors mentioned today faster, at a lower interest rate and under different terms. We will ensure the scheme is utilised to its fullest possible extent, that the SMEs, primary producers and small mid-caps have the greatest possible access to the liquidity they need to recover from the economic impacts of Covid-19 and that the participating finance providers are also active participants in providing support to enterprises. We will monitor that.

In more general terms, my Department works closely with the Irish Government Economic and Evaluation Service in the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform to produce a series of overviews on the loan schemes and other expenditure programmes which are funded by the Department of Business, Enterprise and Innovation. These spending reviews are submitted to the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and are also published on the website of his Department.We can track it there. The Covid-19 credit guarantee scheme will be reviewed as part of this series and therefore this amendment is not necessary. I understand the Senator's logic and motive in tabling it, which I know are genuine, but we believe we do not need additional requirements for reporting under the scheme.