Michael McDowell (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I am grateful for the remarks the Minister of State made in respect of the last set of amendments insofar as they went. I must state again, however, that this group of amendments is to do with the maximum charges pertaining to entry into gaming and the amount that may be won at gaming. I ask the Minister of State to confirm that the gaming permits to which this legislation refers do not include gaming by a gaming machine. He has officials present who can assist on this. I ask them to confirm that the limits do not apply to any operation of a gaming machine because the permits we are dealing with cannot be issued for gaming by means of such a machine. I ask the Minister of State to confirm that the term "gaming machine" has the meaning provided in the Finance Act 1975 and that anything that looks like a one-armed bandit is a gaming machine and, therefore, the prize limits we are dealing with here are for forms of gaming that do not involve the use of such a machine.

I appreciate that the Minister of State is not here to determine what is lawful or unlawful but he and the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Flanagan, are the two political heads of the Department under whose aegis gaming and lotteries are controlled in Irish law. In both the cities of Cork and Dublin, the laws are being flagrantly broken. If it is the case that the Garda Commissioner no longer enforces the law, it is a matter for the Minister of State and Minister. If it is the case that he has been told by the Attorney General that he cannot enforce the law, I would like to hear that, but the Department of Justice and Equality cannot escape responsibility simply by saying it is unaware whether what is going on in Dublin is lawful. It is the Minister of State's Department and this is the capital city of the country. Dublin City Council has not adopted a resolution under Part 3 of the 1986 Act. Amusement halls are, therefore, illegal and the use of gaming machines in amusement halls is also illegal. In those circumstances, the Minister of State should go somewhat further and assure me that he will contact the Garda Commissioner and ask him when he proposes to enforce the law. The relationship between the Minister, the Minister of State, as someone with responsibility in this area, and the Garda Commissioner is one that ordains there should be interaction between the Commissioner, who is independent in the implementation of the law, and the Minister and Department.

Where the law is being flagrantly and with massive profit flouted with complete impunity in an open way, right under our noses in Dublin and Cork, the Department must go that little bit further and ask how this has come about, why it is being tolerated and why nothing appears to be done about it. The people who run the gaming arcades and amusement halls are powerful people. They are making a shedload of money out of doing so. If they are allowed to do so while the members of the Government with political responsibility for gaming and lotteries say they do not know whether it is lawful or unlawful, it is, with respect, not sufficient.