Seanad debates

Wednesday, 2 October 2019

Social Welfare Bill 2019: Committee Stage (Resumed)

 

10:30 am

Photo of Regina DohertyRegina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Making a voluntary contribution is not contributing, so it is not the same thing.While there is an acceptance to allow people to fill in gaps in their history, it is not the same as making a contribution and having an attachment to the labour force for ten, 20, 30 or 40 years.

Some, if not most, of the issues Senator Higgins raised in the amendment are addressed in the social protection system. First, on the threshold for the minimum number of paid contributions to access the voluntary contribution scheme, the Senator will be aware that it was increased from 260 paid contributions to 520 contributions in 2013 to reflect the minimum level of contributions that are needed to qualify for the State pension contributory, which was similarly increased at the same time to 520. We could not have a situation where somebody could buy credits after having accrued so many credits but not have access to the system until they got to the 520 mark and, therefore, they must be aligned. The increase ensures that the pension qualification is genuinely linked to a realistic maximum level of labour force attachment.

What is probably most important is the PRSI contribution records. If, for a voluntary contribution, the minimum contribution condition was lower than 520 contributions, individuals who currently do not meet the contribution conditions of the State pension could pay voluntary contributions to make up the shortfall without ever having the attachment to the workforce that others would have and there would be a disparity in the system. This would be inherently unfair to other workers who have a much longer attachment to the system, which is what total contributions is trying to achieve. Total contributions are to ensure that those who have made more contributions to the Social Insurance Fund, SIF, get more out of it than those who have not made the contributions to the SIF, but with the underlying acceptance that the value of the work in the home, whether by a man or a woman, whether caring for children or parents, is of significant value to the common good.

On the wider issue of access, voluntary contributions are available to all workers under the age of 66 who are no longer compulsorily employed. Workers can access them, and do. Voluntary contributions are there to protect an individual's social insurance entitlements when the individual has already made an established relationship with the Social Insurance Fund. The option to make a voluntary contribution is already available to the self-employed.

In 2017, as Senator Higgins mentioned, my predecessor made the kind gesture of accepting what was a good amendment on the Senator's behalf to extend the period of time in which voluntary contributions can be made to five years since the previous contributions. I can see from the past couple of years that some people do not even apply for their pension when they reach the age of 66. They are busy and there is stuff going on. We all get older. We do not feel the years going by much faster than they did when we were younger. I welcome the change to five years and I thank Senator Higgins for that. However, I would say there are still people who find themselves outside of the five-year period and we still have to find wriggle room to get them to be able to do what they should have done years ago when there is a general acceptance that they did not mean not to do it.

Under EU legislation a worker is only entitled to a social contribution or a voluntary contribution in any one state at any one time. This is in reference to the people to whom the Senator referred who worked in the UK. They can certainly claim their contributions. The Department gets contributions histories every week for those who have worked in the UK, and we add it to their contributions history here. Alternatively, if someone does not have a contributions history, for instance, if the person went as the wife of a man who was working in London, she can certainly buy the contributions for the time that she was outside of the country.

Much of what the Senator has asked me to do is already in existence. If the Senator wants, I can give her a copy of all of the documents that I have here to prove that to her. What I cannot do is allow people, after 260 contributions, to be able to buy contributions to bring them up to 520 contributions.

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