Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I move amendment No. 2:

In page 9, to delete lines 19 to 43, and in page 10, to delete lines 1 to 26.

It is regrettable that the amendment put forward by my colleagues on class K payments was ruled out of order because it is an important issue. Even though that is the case, perhaps there may be a chance to discuss it when discussing the section. Amendments Nos. 2 to 7, inclusive, propose very small changes, but I hope the Minister might agree that important issues arise in terms of inconsistency with some of the previous language and with the language in the new proposal relating to self-employed persons and the services or supports they may seek to access relating to social protection services. The Minister is aware that we have discussed with her the importance of a positive approach to activation. We have common views on that, namely, that there should be a positive perspective whereby we ensure that people are offered appropriate employment, training or educational opportunities and that we also ensure that each person individually in his or her interaction with Intreo and the social protection or activation services of the State is appropriately supported and given choices and options. I am concerned that the section as currently worded has slightly more punitive language and what I believe could be construed as a narrowing of the options for the individual, which is a little bit inconsistent with what we previously had. Perhaps that is intentional or perhaps it is inadvertent.

Specifically, amendment No. 2 proposes the deletion of these sections. If the Minister does not wish to accept my amendments, she will have an opportunity to submit a revised version of those two sections on Report Stage. Amendment No. 3 suggests that rather than the language of refusal or failure to attend activation meetings related to jobseeker's benefit being the lead point, perhaps it might be a more positive and constructive engagement if we were to talk about activation services related to jobseeker's benefit for the self-employed, which may well include situations where persons do not engage as well as situations where they do engage. While the payments are represented in different sections, the activation supports are almost primarily identified through the question of refusal or failure to attend. There is a danger of a climate, which I do not think we should be pushing forward, of distrust or, to some degree, of blame. A positive framing of the activation services would be better.

Amendment No. 4 suggests the deletion of the section with the hope that the Minister might put forward an alternative framing or phrasing of it. Those are some of the key points. Amendment No. 5 concerns lines 33 and 34 in page 9. Rather than simply stating "may require the person to whom it is given to do", we would substitute "may make available to the person". Again, I am trying to promote a positive support-based approach to activation rather than one that assumes that citizens must be prodded and poked and reluctantly forced to engage. That is not my understanding of most citizens. I believe most people are very keen and some people in the self-employed section who are coming through have shown in the past their eagerness to work and to engage. That should be our primary assumption in how we speak to them.

Of more specific concern is the phrase in line 42: "attend for or submit to an assessment of that person's education, training or development needs". Attending for an assessment of one's educational, training or development needs is one thing. That is an important and appropriate requirement and it is one that is put on others who engage with the social protection system, but the phrase "submit to" gives rise to concern. What do we mean by that? Does it mean that any questionnaire that relates to any aspect of one's development or personal training must be filled in and submitted to? How do we know, for example, that it is a necessary and proportionate assessment that is taking place? What recourse is there, if for example, a person finds an assessment to be intrusive or inappropriate? "Submit to" is dynamic whereby because a person who has contributed in the past to the State, no doubt in all the different ways people contribute, is now being required to submit to whatever may be assessed. There are real concerns here.

The Minister is aware there are concerns with amendment No. 7. We will come to them shortly. That is the reason I want to say explicitly in a new section that: "The signing of a personal progression plan shall not be considered a requirement in terms of" either attendance or submission to assessment. We know there have been situations, because we have heard of them and we have heard them testified in the Joint Committee on Employment Affairs and Social Protection, where people have been told while sitting in a room that they must sign off on a plan that has been written for them, in many cases by private companies contracted by the State, and that they must agree that this is their route for progression, and that this is what they want to do with the rest of their life and the rest of their energy and what they have. We know there have been issues with the signing of those plans. We debated it more than two years ago whereby persons were told they needed to sign the plan to show that they had attended for interview.The fact they were in the room, willing to engage and interested in discussing options was not enough if they did not agree to sign a personal progression plan. There are personal progression plans from Intreo services and others, but in those cases the personal progression plan is put together in some cases by a private company. There have been concerns internationally about the practice of a large number of persons emerging with very similar, if not identical, personal progression plans that direct them to particular routes that may not reflect the full range of each person's options.

We also know from the hearings at the social protection committee meeting that in some cases, although not all, the Department, when determining payment to these private companies, considers the signing of personal progression plans one of the clear ways in which a company may claim that it has supported somebody or delivered services to a person. That should not be the case. It is an inappropriate financial incentive or pressure to put on a private company in order for it to put pressure on vulnerable persons. Although the amendments may appear to be technical they are about the ethos of the State and of the engagement. Amendments Nos. 6 and 7 are very important and I hope the Minister might consider taking them on board.