Finian McGrath (Dublin Bay North, Independent) | Oireachtas source

Is it true? Can I check it out? I congratulate the Senator on climbing Galtymore.

I also welcome all of our distinguished visitors from right across the board; I welcome those who are at local authority level like Councillor Donnelly, people directly involved in the disability organisations, as well as parents, families and those providing support.

I support the aim of the proposed legislation, which is to facilitate the inclusion and full participation of people with disabilities and their families and friends in their communities by enabling greater access to public spaces. As presented by Senator Dolan, the Bill has four key aims. It aims to do the following: require local authorities to apply the principles of universal design to the provision of playgrounds and play equipment; require the National Transport Authority to require private operators operating on a public route to maintain or enhance accessibility for people with disabilities; and to appoint a director of personal advocacy, as provided for in the Citizens Information Act 2007, to support people with disabilities in accessing social services which are necessary for full participation and inclusion in the community. This morning I attended the graduation from Limerick Institute of Technology, LIT, of 37 young graduates, each of whom has a physical or intellectual disability. The key thing was advocacy, as mentioned in this legislation. I want to commend the LIT president, Professor Vincent Cunnane, Ms Martina Neylon and all the staff who are doing fantastic work on pushing the issue of advocacy and rights of people with disabilities. I thank them for delivering on access to their third level institution, which is a very profound thing. The fourth aim of the Bill is to require changing facilities to be provided in relevant publicly accessible buildings which are newly built or undergo material alterations.

The Senator seeks to achieve these aims by amending the Local Government Act 2001, the Planning and Development Act 2001, the Public Transport Regulation Act 2009 and the Building Regulations 1997. The Bill also provides for the commencement of certain provisions of the Citizens Information Act 2007. I know that all Members of the House will agree that we must do our utmost to support and promote the inclusion of adults and children with disabilities in society through participation in cultural life, travel, recreation, sport and leisure activities. These are vitally important pursuits for everyone, but for persons with disabilities they provide particular opportunities for physical and mental health, the development of stronger self-esteem and the forging of life skills. The Government recognises this and is committed to ensuring the participation and inclusion of persons with disabilities in the lives of their communities by maximising the accessibility of public places, increasing our financial investment and promoting opportunities for people with disabilities to participate in recreational, cultural and leisure activities.

Senators will be aware that the national disability inclusion strategy is the key framework for policy and action to address the needs of people with disabilities. The strategy, which is co-ordinated by the Department of Justice and Equality, takes a whole-of-Government approach to improving the lives of people with disabilities. It does this in a practical sense and also by creating the best possible opportunities for people with disabilities to fulfil their potential. The strategy contains 114 measurable and time-specific actions, implementation of which is overseen by a steering group chaired at ministerial level. The actions are also tracked against a set of 62 indicators identified by the National Disability Authority. This implementation work is ongoing.

As many of my Senator colleagues have mentioned, transport is one of the key themes in the strategy. In this regard the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport is committed to implementing 15 specific actions that will support the overarching objectives in its remit. These include ensuring: that the planning and design of public buildings and public spaces is informed by engagement with people with disabilities and other users across the spectrum of age, size, ability and disability; that persons with disabilities are able lo access buildings and their facilities on the same basis as everyone else; and that persons with disabilities can get to and from their chosen destination independently, without driving a car, in transport that is accessible to them.

The strategy also contains a chapter on person-centred disability services. One of the pivotal goals described is for persons with disabilities to "participate in the everyday life and activities of their communities". In this regard the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport and Sport Ireland have a specific commitment to "foster disability awareness and competence in voluntary, sporting, cultural and other organisations... [and] ensure that disability inclusion is fully integrated into funding programmes, monitored and linked to further funding".The Departments of Transport, Tourism and Sport and Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht and Sport Ireland are also committed to ensuring that new buildings and facilities for arts, sports and leisure are based on universal design principles. Furthermore, under the strategy, the Office of Public Works, all Departments and public bodies are working to bring all public sector buildings into compliance with the revised 2010 Part M accessibility standards by 2022. As chair of the inclusion strategy steering group, I am working to ensure these commitments are met.

Of course, it is not just the Government that is seeking to improve the lives of people with disabilities and, in this context, I turn to the content of the Bill. While the Government does not oppose the Senator's Bill, there are issues with it, which I will now address. As it would involve considerable Exchequer funding, it will require a money message from the Government if it is to progress. Section 1 seeks to amend the Local Government Act 2001 to require that the principles of universal design be applied to the provision of playgrounds and related equipment by local authorities. In a similar vein, section 2 amends the Planning and Development Act 2000 to ensure that when planning authorities are preparing development plans, as required every six years, those plans shall include objectives for the preservation, improvement and extension of amenities and recreational amenities in accordance with the principals of universal design. This is a laudable goal and we should do everything in our power to facilitate access to playground and public amenities for children with disabilities.

However, there is an issue with the Senator's approach, namely, that there are currently no standards to guide and measure the achievement of universal design for playgrounds and equipment. In short, the Bill requires facilities to be provided in adherence with a particular standard but in the absence of that standard to measure whether those services and facilities are being properly provided. It is essentially a case of putting the cart before the horse. The NDA intends to commence work on developing guidelines and standards for universally designed playgrounds and playground equipment later this year. These standards, when completed, will provide us with a template from which to work. However, the next step should be to implement these standards in pilot areas before jumping towards a statutory provision, which is premature at this point.

While the lack of standards is one issue, another obstacle is likely to arise with regard to the procurement of universally designed playground equipment. It is pointless to provide for specialist facilities if the appropriate equipment cannot be sourced. This is also a difficulty that will be reviewed. This, in turn, leads us to resourcing implications. If the Bill were to be enacted as is, it would have a significant financial impact on the provision of community play amenities by local authorities.

Section 3 amends section 13 of the Public Transport Regulation Act 2009 to ensure that where an operator's licence to provide a public bus service has been granted, amended or renewed, the NTA shall impose conditions that the operator cannot diminish access to the service being provided. The amendment refers to maintaining or enhancing but not diminishing access to public bus services by people with disabilities. The Bill's intent, again, is positive, but this issue warrants more detailed examination as to feasibility. The wording of the section is ambiguous and unclear, insofar as it does not define the term "access". As currently worded, the term "access" could be broadly interpreted as anything from physical access to buses, frequency and scheduling of services, locations of bus stops or even alterations to the cost of fares. In short, a definition of the term "access" is required in the interests of clarity and for the amendment to be workable and measurable. This would warrant more detailed consideration and further work on definitions before the Bill would be in a position to progress.

Section 4 provides for the amendment of the Citizens Information Act 2007 to ensure the provision of a personal advocacy service for qualifying adults, taking into account the financial resources of the Citizens Information Board, either six months or earlier after the passing of the Bill. As Senators will be aware, one of the functions of the board is the provision of advocacy services to individuals, in particular those with a disability, to assist them in identifying and understanding their needs and options and in securing their entitlements to social services.

The board also funds and supports the National Advocacy Service for People with Disabilities, which provides an independent confidential and free advocacy service that works exclusively for adults with disabilities and adheres to the highest professional standards. In 2018, the service dealt with almost 4,000 cases, of which 914 required full representative advocacy casework and 3,001 received information, advice and once-off interventions. I understand that the budget allocation to the service was €3.1 million in 2018 and the allocation for 2019 is €3.25 million. Furthermore, proposals have been developed and are being considered to strengthen the national advocacy service by affording statutory powers to the service's advocates. The Senator proposes in the Bill to appoint a director of personal advocacy. That would give rise to further costs without necessarily improving advocacy services for persons with disabilities.

Section 5 seeks to amend Part M of the building regulations 1997 to ensure that changing place facilities are provided instead of disabled access bathroom facilities in all publicly accessible buildings. This will require their inclusion in newly built buildings or via modification to existing facilities. While the Bill highlights a significant gap in the current minimum requirements for sanitary facilities under Part M of the building regulations 2010, the manner in which it approaches the issue is problematic in that the Bill proposes to amend the building regulations directly. The purpose of the building regulations is to set out high-level objectives, whereas technical guidance document M provides for the provision of individual standards, requirements and specifications. It is, therefore, inappropriate to amend the regulations directly. Instead, technical guidance document M should be amended and updated with specific requirements.

The Bill raises significant implications for existing public buildings, in particular older ones. In general, the building regulations apply to the construction of new buildings arid to significant changes to existing buildings. Otherwise, the building regulations do not generally apply to buildings constructed prior to 1992. However, section 25 of the Disability Act requires public bodies to apply Part M retrospectively to public buildings. Section 25 states that where Part M is amended, public buildings shall be brought into compliance with any amendments not later than ten years after the commencement of that amendment. This change would have implications for public bodies that own, manage or control those public buildings, as they would need to bring them into compliance within ten years. In a large number of cases, it may not be possible to modify existing or older premises to provide for changing place facilities. The Bill is silent as to what should be done in those circumstances and this is a matter that would require detailed examination as to feasibility and cost implications.

Another issue also arises with regard to retrofitting existing premises with changing place facilities. In certain cases, it may not be possible to meet requirements by installing hoist systems as specified in the Bill. In those instances, it is not clear if the use of mobile systems would be acceptable under the Bill as drafted, or if the Bill might require an amendment to permit the use of mobile systems.

Section 5 is broad in its application of the requirement to upgrade public buildings. However, the Bill as drafted and its interaction with our existing legislative framework would require the upgrade of a very wide range of facilities in public buildings. Senators will appreciate that this measure would have significant cost implications for the State. As such, we need to undertake a proper examination of these implications before advancing further with the Bill.

I want to be clear to the House that the Government does not oppose the Bill. Yesterday, I was very supportive of it in Cabinet. We are committed to providing the utmost support to people with disabilities. However, there are significant technical and practical issues with the Bill that will need to be considered and worked out in detail. That is what we intend to do.

I want to mention some of the points raised during the debate.Senator Grace O'Sullivan mentioned her daughter and the Ability programme in particular. It is important to note that we introduced the programme a couple of months ago, in line with the UN convention. Under this programme, 2,300 young people with disabilities have access to, and are involved in, training, employment and education. When talking about people with disabilities we often ignore, as the Senator rightly points out, the ability of many people who have a specific disability.

Senator Black mentioned the stories heard yesterday. I agree with her. The particular case of that young person in Donegal is unacceptable. There are other such cases out there. I hear those stories every day in my job. It is my job to try to fix those situations.

Senator Conway referred to meeting the goals of the UN convention. As far as I am concerned, ratifying the UN convention was only the start. We are now into the issues. That is my objective. Under the social care part of this year's budget, €1.904 billion is allocated to services for people in the social care area, including people with disabilities. That is an increase of 7.5%. Do I need more? Absolutely. Am I constantly looking for more? Yes.

Senator Higgins mentioned the issue of sustainable communities. She also talked about children's rights under the Democratic Programme of the First Dáil.

I thank Senator Dolan for his work on this issue, on which I will work with him closely. I will also work with colleagues in the Seanad. They have my support. There are some amendments to be made in the future. We have to bring people with us. We have to change the mindset in many Departments, as a number of colleagues mentioned. The overall thrust of the legislation is positive. I welcome the debate. Once again, I thank all the Senators who contributed. They understand the issue of disability from their own practical experiences. In my experience as Minister of State over the past three years, Senators have made a massive contribution to the debate about achieving an inclusive, modern, progressive Ireland. That is the way forward. We need to start focusing on people's ability and on their rights as equal citizens in our society. That is my objective.