Mark Daly (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

The issue of us turning around and restricting local lotteries is a fairly tenuous argument. What we are aiming to do here in amendment No. 12 is to deal with unregulated offshore companies which are providing this service where one can bet on the outcome of our lottery. There is no benefit to the State at all in people being allowed to bet on the outcome of our national lottery. None whatsoever. We would prefer that they bear in mind that a large amount of the money that is placed on the national lottery when people put in their numbers does go to the national lottery operator. I would not be in favour of that, but at least a proportion of the money goes to charities and causes which we can all support, whereas none of the money that is put forward by betting companies when they put out those betting terms on the outcome of the national lottery comes to the State, whether in taxes or in money to charities. We are not proposing in any way, shape or form to do anything else other than make sure it is part of a betting licence that the holder does not offer the opportunity to bet on the outcome of the national lottery. If people want to bet on the national lottery, they can do so and there is some benefit to the State. If they want to bet on the outcome of soccer matches, rugby matches or horse racing, that is what betting offices do.

This deals with the national lottery in particular, but Senator Buttimer has pointed out the issue of online gambling, all of which is disastrous. It is really bad for society because of the fact that it is on one's phone. There was a man on the radio this morning who used to bet on his laptop as he was driving to work. This was from before the app was available. That is how addictive gambling is, and now it is available on one's phone. I know people in my own town and there are people in every town in the country where this is a huge problem. Before, there was some restriction in the fact that one had to physically go in to a betting office. In this particular element we are not talking about silver bullets. This is incremental. We have to look at each place where it can be made more regulated regarding the benefit to the State. Speaking specifically on this amendment, offshore companies offering bets on the outcome of our national lottery is of zero benefit to the State. That is what we are trying to do with this particular amendment, and we are not trying to do anything other than that. There are many other amendments we would like to see where the opportunity for problem gambling is restricted.

I have spoken to people in Paddy Power, who are watching this as we go. The dark art works in such a way that they target people. They know the person who is a problem gambler by the size of his initial bet, and then they put bets in front of him. They have an individual operator controlling the games, and knowing that that person is a problem gambler, they know that if they do the following, which they have worked it out mathematically, it will entice him to bet again and again. That used to be the problem if one went to Las Vegas, but Las Vegas is on everyone's phone now. The State has a responsibility to protect citizens from themselves. In this amendment we are trying to protect the State so that the money goes to the national lottery, a proportion of which goes to good causes, and that people cannot bet on the outcome of the national lottery. We want to stop that. If people are going to bet on the national lottery they must put their money down on the outcome by picking their numbers. That is simply what we are trying to do in this amendment and nothing else. It is of some benefit to the State.