Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the proposals of the Minister of State in regard to retrofitting. We discussed fuel poverty and other issues around social protection and payments that might be needed, and that is something we may develop further. It is noteworthy that there is a parallel debate regarding the potential for carbon storage payments that may emerge under the Common Agricultural Policy. It would be a pity to damage our capacity to put forward proposals in that regard in a meaningful way in the manner that the Heritage Act, which relates to hedge-cutting, damaged our credibility in regard to some biodiversity and environmental stewardship payments that may be emerging. If a species is extinct, and we have seen the reports that many of our natural species are teetering on the edge of extinction, there will be no stewardship payments for the protection of those species.

On the smaller areas of bogland, Ireland is a small country, but it is one of the wealthier countries in the world, even though there is great poverty here. It fits within the global picture. Similarly, each of these small areas of bogland fits within the tapestry of our nation and what we do collectively. We must be clear that there is not a size at which responsibility kicks in. I have seen people taking action. I visited Malawi and saw community projects taking place in villages that had almost nothing. The people were making difficult decisions on how they stewarded their natural resources and protected trees in order to protect their soil because they were thinking in a long-term way in spite of the most pressing needs. We need joined-up thinking such as that.

I welcome the comments of the Minister of State in regard to the types of machinery that may be used. However, we cannot wait for further legislation to be brought forward. He is aware that the Bill has taken four or five years to be progressed and the entire process has taken up to 12 years. The Bill is an opportunity to address these issues, although other sections may be more relevant in this regard. What will happen to a bog after de-designation is crucial. It is not sufficient for the Minister of State to decide to open a bog up for commercial cutting by de-designating it and leaving it to what might happen in the hope that other legislation may be brought forward to regulate what happens after de-designation. Perhaps a time clause should be included such that bogs may only be de-designated after regulation is put in place in respect of commercial cutting. There are many ways around this problem. We can approach it from different angles. I recognise that this area overlaps with the responsibilities of other Ministers, but climate change requires a whole-of-Government approach and responsibility. I hope there will be reporting on carbon budgets and that each Department will answer for the contribution it has made. For example, if commercial cutting continues under the Bill and we face fines from Europe, will it be the Department of Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht which will take the hit in terms of those fines and lose funding from other things it does to protect and support parts of Ireland that need protection and support? Will the Minister in charge of the regulation of turf cutting be held responsible? Who will take responsibility? It is ultimately our responsibility as politicians to decide what happens and how we join it up.

I appreciate and support the many good ideas of the Minister of State. However, just because we are doing good things does not mean we must counterbalance that with concessions or steps that are wrong or in the wrong direction. I will engage on the machinery issue as if it can be incorporated into the Bill or in parallel with it, it would address that core concern. My intention is not to stop people going to spend a day on the bog with their family. I wish to ensure that day in the bog has birdsong, that it is in a natural environment and that a day in the bog can be understood by future generations, rather than being something they read about.