David Norris (Independent) | Oireachtas source

At the outset, having read the information surrounding this legislation, I have to say that I was rather against it but I will not be calling for a vote. I will just see as the debate proceeds and as we get through Committee Stage and look at amendments and so on and so forth. I have been reassured by the comments that some of my colleagues have made on the Fianna Fáil side and on the Opposition side because if this legislation is intended to outlaw amusement arcades, to close gambling houses and to make various restrictions to prohibit rather than regulate, then I am all for it. There is far too much gambling in this country.

The reason I was concerned was because the note that was provided by the Cathaoirleach's personal assistant said that the Bill ensures "an important public interest in assisting the better promotion of gaming and lotteries." I would have thought we have had enough promotion of these matters already, particularly gaming and gambling. It is shocking what is going on. The explanatory notice and financial memorandum also says: "This modernisation will serve an important public interest is assisting the better promotion of gaming." I certainly do not want to see the better promotion of gaming so I gather this is all a lot of flummery to conceal the real intention of the Bill, which is to restrict gambling and I certainly hope that it succeeds in this.

I am concerned because the Minister of State has said that there have been contentions made on the issue of District Court certificates and Revenue Commissioners' licences in areas where there appears to be no local authority resolution in place permitting gaming, and then he says there is a court case so that we cannot comment too much on it. I have to say that I am quite happy with the provisions. If it is not legally possible to operate gaming machines in the city of Dublin, then that is the situation. It should be enforced and that is where the problem is. Then the Minister of State said that:

Section 4 of the Bill inserts a new section 9A into the 1956 Act. This section sets out the application process for a permit for gaming for either charitable or philanthropic purposes or for the benefit of the promoter.

Does this open the way for the vulture funds, because the Government has allowed the vulture funds to register as charitable institutions?

Then we have the question of the current seizure provision in section 37 on unlawful gaming, as defined in the Act. It is now extended to gaming machines. I understood that it already covered gaming machines. I was very surprised by a Sinn Féin colleague and friend expressing gladness at the raising of the limits, but they are enormous and vast increases. From 3 cent to €10 is bad enough, but from 50 cent to €750 clearly raises this situation beyond the question of gaming for amusement. If one is looking to win €750, it is not just amusement, there is a profit motive there so we are in danger at that point.

If we look at the situation as it exists at present, operators all over the country, but particularly in Dublin, are being openly allowed to flout the law. I would be delighted if Dr. Quirkey's Good Time Emporium was closed down, if Fitzpatrick's Casino on Parnell Street was closed down and if the whole bloody lot of them went. They are a disgrace to the main street of a European capital city to have nothing but knickers shops and gambling casinos in the street. Tens of millions of euro in licence fees, moneys which could fund much-needed addiction services, are not being collected. There is every reason to question whether VAT is being properly collected. Questionable licensing decisions have been made in the District Licensing Court and I will confine myself just to saying that because that is one the matters that is under consideration.

Garda activity in applying the law has virtually come to a standstill and the Revenue Commissioners, which have been active of late, have questions to answer as to why the excise services have waited so long to become active. We have had some Revenue raids and in those raids, machines were seized. One operator lost machines from premises on O'Connell Street and in Phibsborough. While Revenue has been active in recent times seizing gaming machines in a number of high-profile raids, there are still questions to answer. Why has it taken so long to take action? Many of the premises raided in Dublin have been openly operating since 1988 when Dublin Corporation, as it then was, banned gaming machines in the city. It is absurd. It is a classic Irish situation. Dublin Corporation banned gaming machines from the city but we have a proliferation of them. Over the past ten years they have multiplied all over the place.

I have to say that I am not particularly proud of Paddy Power as a business. It is a very efficient business but it leeches onto people and a lot of these big gambling houses actually give money to gambling addicts to feed their addiction. In the operations that have taken place, why were only a small proportion of the gaming machines in operation seized? If the Revenue go in and there are illegal gaming machines, why does it not seize the whole bloody lot? I gather that the Minister of State is on our side in this matter. Other than seizing machines, what further action will be taken? As mentioned earlier, it is possible that many of the gaming machines operating in areas such as Dublin city, where Part III of the 1956 Act is not operable, are being passed off illegally as amusement machines. With the rising of the prize money, they certainly cannot be passed off in this way again. If that is the case, it raises further serious questions for the Revenue Commissioners, the licensing authority for both gaming and amusement machines, such as why this is happening, when we will see its staff consistently applying the Revenue compliance manual and how the takings of amusement machines are being treated for VAT purposes. All takings of amusement machines are liable for VAT. If machines that are registered as amusement machines are being treated for VAT purposes as gaming machines, Revenue could be under-billing the operators to the tune of hundreds of millions of euro annually. These are some of the problems that currently exist in the system.

I applaud the Minister of State for having taken up this problem, even though it is an interim measure as he says himself, so to a certain extent it is just a stopgap. I am relieved to discover that under the apparent promotion of gaming, there is an attempt by the Government to restrict gambling.I hope some of these businesses will be put out of operation. I remember receiving a letter some years ago from a constituent who was running some kind of gaming facility and she was concerned the law would inhibit her and she had a certain number of people employed. I wrote back to her and said I do not approve of gambling and that I was sorry but I could not take up her case because I believe in being honest with people. A bit of an innocent flutter on the Grand National or putting a couple of pence in a gaming machine satisfies the amusement part, but when people get into a situation involving amounts of €10,000, €15,000, €30,000, €50,000 or €100,000, it is terrible disease. If, as my colleagues suggested, the Minister of State is facing up to this squarely, I salute him for so doing and I look forward to that in our further examination of the legislation.