Regina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank Senator Nash for his continued interest in this area and he committed to addressing this matter long before I became the Minister with responsibility for employment affairs. The Bill was not opposed on Second Stage by the Government because we all want and hope to see this matter being addressed within a short period. There were some fundamental flaws in the Bill that had to be teased out with the relevant joint committee, which has had a number of hearings and one much work with the Irish Congress of Trade Unions and IBEC, as we have also done. The legal issues have not been addressed because the Bill before us is practically exactly the same as it was on Second Stage.

With respect, I have no choice but to outline why we are opposed to the Bill. It is not because the intention behind it is not absolutely admirable and shared by every person in this House and Dáil Éireann. Deputy O'Dea only launched his own Bill today. He introduced a provision on bogus self-employment as an amendment to the consolidated Act from last year but we had to ask him to remove it. Again, we did not have the opportunity for pre-legislative scrutiny.

We all want the same thing. I am not hung up on whose name is listed at the bottom of the page because there is absolutely no monopoly on wisdom on the part of any government. Legislation is only enriched by the contributions of all Members of both Houses. I believe in that process. The problem is that what we outlined as being at issue a number of months ago is still part of the Bill. It would be unfair to state that sections 1, 2 and 3 are grand without outlining the problems we have with them. I do not mind if we do not have a division at the end of the debate on each section.Fundamentally, when we finish this debate, I will have no choice because we have not amended the Bill to deal with my concerns. Accordingly, I cannot support it in its current guise. It is fine if Senator Gavan wants to withdraw his amendments and bring them back on Report Stage. However, we need to ensure that whatever legislation is enacted does exactly what we need it to do with regard to this growing issue. It is not a new phenomenon.

Sometimes people believe it is because of the gig economy and how work arrangements are changing. However, we always had people declare themselves as self-employed either willingly or being forced to do so in a variety of industries. Ultimately, there is a loss of employment rights and a whopping loss of revenue to the State. This needs to be addressed properly. I can go through each section to explain our concerns with this Bill. However, I cannot support it at this point.

I support the work done by the Labour Party, Sinn Féin, Fianna Fáil, the Independents and the Government in this regard. For once, we all want the same result, namely to eradicate people being maligned into a particular employment status that they should not be in. More importantly, one cannot be willingly self-employed if the work one does is employment and not self-employment. A clear definition and a code of practice need to be put on a statutory basis as to what self-employment and employment mean. If one is employed, one’s employer will pay the contributions into the Social Insurance Fund which funds all social welfare pensions and schemes. One cannot be allowed to avoid it because two people willingly enter into a self-employed contract when self-employment does not exist.

I am not trying to be difficult. It is not about my legislation introduced in the Dáil this morning versus the Senator’s legislation. I want legislation which has no unintended consequences and is clear in its victimisation and penalties provisions, as well as being clear in its definitions as to self-employed and employed with no ambiguity or wriggle room.