Joe McHugh (Donegal, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I appreciate the opportunity to speak on this issue. Ar dtús, gabhaim buíochas leis na Seanadóirí uilig fá choinne an tseans labhairt leo inniu agus fá choinne an chomhrá, atá de dhíth, faoi thoradh na díospóireachta Brexit a bhí ann inné agus faoin mhéid a tharlóidh amach anseo. Aithním go mbeidh tiomantas i gceist go fóill.

I thank the Senators for the time they have given to this important Bill. I will give Senators some context on the organisational aspects of SUSI. The Senators have been specific in referring to SUSI with regard to the amendment and, as I said in the Dáil, I take the spirit of the amendment very seriously. I want to ensure that while we are still not sure as to what the Brexit outcome will be, there will be equality of access for people, be they living in Bangor, Ballaghaderreen or Bandon. I am aware that all Senators are very conscious of this.

The City of Dublin Education and Training Board, CDETB, was designated as an awarding authority for student grants by way of a ministerial order in May 2012. As such, SUSI is not a corporate entity and it would, therefore, be inappropriate to include a provision in primary legislation that refers to a business unit as opposed to a corporate entity. There is a management framework agreement in place between my Department and the CDETB that defines and forms prescribed rules for the administration of student grants. This agreement also defines the governance structures and functioning mechanisms with a view to ensuring the development, delivery and effective administration of student grants. The service levels agreed are intended to act as a key performance metric as to how the City of Dublin ETB provides these services. These indicators include system availability, functionality and development, communications, the payment process, the appeals process and, more importantly, customer service. In addition, SUSI's staffing model provides a certain degree of flexibility with regard to the recruitment of temporary staff to meet peak demands during the grant processing season. Should the need arise it will be open to SUSI management to reallocate resources to meet its operational needs. This answer's Senator O'Reilly's point about resources. That certainly would not be a question as far as I am concerned. If people want access on a timely basis it should be required, irrespective of being in this or other jurisdictions.

There is already a provision within the Student Support Act 2011 to outsource certain functions by SUSI.In this regard the CDETB has engaged the services of an outsourced provider called Abtran. This company provides a call centre and document management service for SUSI. Should the need arise it is possible to increase the resources provided by this company to meet any potential peak in demand.

It is estimated that SUSI processes some 100,000 applications for SUSI grants and less than 2% of these are from outside the Republic of Ireland. It is also noticeable that as all applicants become more familiar with the SUSI processes it has led to greater efficiencies in its service delivery. This is a tribute not only to greater clarity and communications from SUSI, but also to the valuable role played by careers guidance counsellors in our schools and to the people in this House and the Dáil in 2012 during the time of when the ETB got this service level agreement contract. There were a lot of teething problems and complications but the fact that SUSI is not raised on the floor of the House or in parliamentary questions is testament to the great work it has been doing.

I appreciate that the objective of the amendment is to ensure there are resources in place to deliver a very clear message for all applicants for SUSI supports, and specifically to those seeking to study in the UK, those UK citizens looking to study in Ireland, or students from the North. I agree fully with this. I am particularly conscious that any changes in the area of student finance can bring uncertainty. Clearly, I want to avoid that. My Department will continue to consult with SUSI to ensure that adequate resources are in place to deal effectively with the level of queries that may arise. As I said earlier, the option remains to adjust resources if that is required.

The Government is very committed to clear and precise communications on all aspects of Brexit impacts. The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade recently updated its content on Brexit and more specifically the common travel area. In addition to using its own social media and communications my Department will be updating material on this site on specific education issues as they arise.

In seeking to assure all Senators I want to communicate very clearly that Irish students will continue to be eligible for SUSI supports while they study in the UK and in the North, and that the Northern Ireland and UK students will continue to be eligible for the SUSI grants while they study in higher education institutions in Ireland.

Since my appointment as Minister my goal has been to protect the valuable and rich co-operation that takes place between education institutions on a North-South and an east-west basis. There are examples of this co-operation at all levels. The north-west strategic partnership, for example, is the Letterkenny Institute of Technology and Donegal ETB working closely with the University of Ulster and the North West Regional College from the North to ensure further and higher education provision are closely aligned with the skills and industrial needs of the region.

In many senses the Border does not figure as these education institutions seek to develop a shared education and skills strategy. On a personal footnote with regard to the Border, on Monday I crossed the Border eight times in one day. It is a very fluid border and if one was to ask me if I knew I was crossing it on those eight times I would not. It was not just because my head was in the phone - while I was in the passenger seat - but it is because we know how fluid the Border is, and we want to keep it that way.

It is important to acknowledge the commitment of all the educators at all levels who have built collaborations across the Border. They deserve commendation and our appreciation. The foundations they built must be protected and strengthened. There has been a shared education ecosystem between Ireland and the United Kingdom since the foundation of the State, and even before that. It is very important that we protect and preserve that collaboration into the future in the interests of our young people and the next generation.

The common travel area will mitigate many of the Brexit impacts within the education sector. This includes the SUSI grants and maintaining the current EU fees system for Northern Irish and UK students. Agreement on these principles between my Department and the Department for Education in the UK, as well as on wider policy issues on other levels of education, has been reached and discussions are now focused on framing these within the memorandum of understanding. This will protect much of the valuable and rich co-operation that takes place in education on a North-South and an east-west basis.

The Minister of State with responsibility for higher education, Deputy Mitchell O'Connor, and I both view Part 5 of the Bill - which is the focus of today's engagement - as one of the key responses from my Department to the challenges of Brexit. It will facilitate the student mobility between the South, the North and the wider UK, and it will enable me to meet education obligations under the common travel area.

I am confident that SUSI will be able to adjust its capacity to deal with possible increases in calls and demands for information. I acknowledge the motivation and concern of Sinn Féin in this regard, but unfortunately I cannot accept the amendment as outlined. I note that amendment No. 36 seeks that a review is undertaken not later than 12 months after the commencement of Part 5 of the Bill. I am aware that my colleague, the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Coveney, intends to address this more comprehensively later on.I assure the Seanad that I am committed to working with the Joint Committee on Education and Skills to ensure the impact of the Part 5 is communicated in an open and objective manner. Many have spoken of this Bill as one which everyone hopes will not be enacted. Hopefully, that will be the case. As a public representative from Donegal, I am very conscious of the impact of a disorderly Brexit on citizens North and South. A no-deal outcome is in nobody's interest. It is now for the UK to set out what it intends to do next. Let us hope that clarity comes shortly and that we can remove the political uncertainty for both North-South and east-west.

I acknowledge Senator Norris's contribution on the decline in the movement of students from the North over the years. That is something of which I am very conscious. There are factors which have led to that situation but that is not an excuse in itself not to do something about it. He was correct in saying that there are communications and timeframe issues in terms of applications. That is something of which we can take control, but I am certainly of the belief that we should plough ahead with that continued engagement on a North-South basis. I thank the Senator for raising that issue. I sat in this House with the Senator back in 2002-----