Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank Senators for their comments. Senator Black touched on an important issue when she said that if we do not act to give people the opportunities they deserve, and proper housing conditions, what happened in Carrickmines will happen again. It is most important that we prevent that. There are many other reasons we have to act, as pointed out by various Senators, but providing safe and proper humane conditions is crucial. I hope some of the work we are carrying out on fire safety will prevent such a recurrence. If we do not act, however, we could end up in the same situation. We cannot have that. Everyone is focused for all the genuine reasons and that is a reminder to us all.

I will address some of the points made by the Senators. I am glad we have had this debate and I thank the Leader for facilitating it. I also thank Senators who made certain this debate took place and put forward this issue as a priority for us to focus on this week, in particular, Senators Kelleher and Warfield. We need to focus on this issue. I am not sure if the expert panel has engaged with Senator Kelleher's committee. If it has not, we will try to organise that in the next couple of weeks. The panel is close to concluding its work. I am not sure if we have missed that opportunity, but I will check. I hope we have not.

We can all agree we are not doing enough. No one is trying to hide or deny that fact. The figures speak for themselves. We now have to try to address the issue. Everybody in this House wants Traveller accommodation provision improved as quickly as possible and to make an impact on that as quickly as we can as well. I assure the House that the Minister, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, and I, our Department and the Government are genuinely committed to doing that. We want to address this matter. We are not trying to sweep it to one side or keep it out of sight. That is not what this is about at all. We are putting it front and centre as something that has to be addressed. It can only be addressed in a cross-party fashion. I thank everybody for that cross-party co-operation, in this House, at committee level, and on the ground. There is an issue and there are also different reasons that it is not being addressed. Certain people would like this not to happen as well. All of us, however, have a duty to ensure we make it happen.

Over the past 18 months, I have visited many Traveller accommodation sites. To be frank, conditions there are extremely poor, disgraceful and unacceptable. Many of those locations are not out of sight and are visible to anybody driving on some of our main roads. It is easy to find them if anybody wants to look at them but people choose not to look in many cases. They turn a blind eye. There are other sites, however, that are hidden away in places where Traveller accommodation should not have been put in the first place. That is, however, where they are today and that highlights the intention behind some of the decisions made in the past. We have to question that. I am referring to decisions made locally in respect of site selection and we have to look at that issue as well.

I find it difficult to accept that when taxpayer's money, which all of us have worked hard to contribute, has been made available by the State, it has been left unspent by local authorities. For whatever reasons, they have are not drawn down that money. There are different reasons that has not happened but it is still unacceptable. Senator Black made the point that just allocating money to an issue is not enough. That has often happened in the past and it has not mattered which parties have been in government. The decision was made to allocate money in the belief that it would fix the problem. That is not the case; it does not fix it. We also have to follow through and change the system to ensure that money is spent. I have no doubt intentions were good over the past 20 years as various plans and legislation were put in place. None of that, however, has delivered the outcomes we want. Delivery has worsened over the years and we have to address that.

The Housing Agency report highlights some of the difficulties hindering the provision of Traveller accommodation. The key is to identify solutions to overcome these difficulties and then implement them. When solutions are identified, we have to implement them. I am committed to acting on the expert review when we get it. I am anxious we get the report as quickly as possible but we do have to let the expert panel complete its work. At this stage, we have waited five months so we might as well wait for the final month. We hope to have the report in April. I believe it is on track to be submitted and then we can act on it.

I am conscious that some suggestions were made during today's debate. I will ensure those suggestions are fed into this report and that there will also be a review of the transcripts of this debate. Most people, however, agree change is needed. I sense some Members want a national body to work on that change but others do not. We all, however, want change and I hope we can develop a system we can all buy into.

The expert panel, in particular, has been asked to review the effectiveness of the implementation and operation of the Housing (Traveller Accommodation) Act 1998 with a view to examining whether it provides a robust legislative basis for meeting the current and future accommodation needs of the Traveller community. If that is not the case, the panel will be requested to explain why not. The group has also been asked to examine national and international best practice in the provision of accommodation for nomadic communities to inform the legislative basis for meeting current and future accommodation needs of Traveller communities. As part of its work, the group has been conducting an extensive consultation with stakeholders in recent months. If the group has not engaged with interested Senators, I will ensure it does so in the weeks ahead. I am looking forward to receiving the report and recommendations of the expert panel. It will be useful to get an independent assessment of the strengths and weaknesses of the current system and to consider new policy initiatives.

We can see where some good practices are being implemented in some counties but there are also plenty of weaknesses in the majority of places. That is what the main focus will be on. Later this year, local authorities will approve the five-year TAPs covering the period 2019 to 2024. The timeframe for the adoption of the TAPs has been extended to facilitate newly elected councils having ownership of the programmes. It would defeat the purpose of this initiative if existing councils put in place five-year plans and then new councils came in and put those plans to one side or used it as an excuse for not using them. There was a deliberate decision to align this process so that the new councils taking up seats in June will implement new five-year plans in September.

My Department is also working closely with the national Traveller accommodation consultative committee, NTACC, to support the work of the local Traveller accommodation consultative committees, LTACCs. Some of those committees at local level work well but others do not work at all or have not even met. That is something we also want to focus on. The intention behind that initiative was genuine but it is not happening and is not delivering. The NTACC has carried out extensive engagement with the LTACCs over the past two years to get a better understanding of the issues faced in the delivery of Traveller accommodation at local level. I have been informed that while many of the committees are functioning very well, some are not. We want to focus on those. We will work with the national body to try to implement that change and bring forward a training programme for the education of members. We will also make training available to new councils coming into the system. The training will help councillors understand their duties and responsibilities in respect of the TAP programmes intended to deliver the accommodation needs of everybody.

We want well-functioning local structures with national drive. Those will be key to delivering the right solutions in local situations. This will require a substantial commitment from the various stakeholders to work together to identify and agree appropriate needs. Some changes at national level have been recommended. I am happy to examine and work with whatever the expert panel brings forward. I will then discuss this issue again with Members, as well as in the Dáil and in committee. We can then tease through the various solutions. I am also happy to work with Senator Kelleher's group once we get the report of the expert panel.

There is no doubt that the system is not delivering what it should. All of us have experience of many sites where people are living in unacceptable conditions. Those are not places to bring up a family and the core of this issue is giving people the opportunity to do that. Without proper housing, where people of every age can feel safe and comfortable and can make plans for the rest of their lives, it is not possible to avail of the opportunities that may be made available. While we might make positive changes in some legislation, that is not enough if we do not address basic accommodation and housing needs. That is what we are going to try to do.

Turning to some specific points raised, Senator Murnane O'Connor, in respect of homelessness figures, asked why we exclude Traveller families. We do not. The monthly homelessness reports include individuals in emergency accommodation in the relevant survey week when the counts are carried out. We are honest about that and nobody is hiding those figures. When there is a reduction in the number of families but an increase in the number of people in emergency accommodation, including children, that often points to larger families in emergency accommodation.

While we do not necessarily record ethnic identity on forms detailing who is homeless, I know, from engaging with local authorities, who is included in those figures. Traveller families, without a doubt, comprise a significant proportion. An estimate of 8% to 10% has been suggested but it is much higher than that in some counties. We know that because there is genuine engagement. Increased funding has been provided to social workers to try to find other accommodation. We know there is a major issue in respect of homeless families and the Traveller community. Anyone homeless is at a disadvantage in trying to find a new home or rent a house. It is much harder again for a homeless Traveller family. Nobody is denying that fact; it is obvious and we can see it.