Victor Boyhan (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister to the House and I thank her for her reasonable approach. Clearly people are disappointed and upset, but I do not doubt the Minister's commitment and one thing I have learned from my long-term involvement in all of these issues is that it is important that we are honest in our approach. Far too often people have been misled - the victims in institutional care have been led up and down the garden path - when promises were made but not delivered. The deadlines were not met. This is the real challenge. We have to be fair and honest and we have to set out the stall.

At the same time we have to acknowledge the pain that people feel. What struck me when I listened to many of these people was that they had an opportunity to tell their story. This is where Mrs. Justice Mary Laffoy did so much good work in acknowledging the importance of that opportunity. It is very clear that getting their story out and, more important, not being judged for it and being believed, was cathartic. I have spoken to many people and I have always found that when a person is acknowledged and believed, it gives the person a sense that somebody is listening to his or her story; I include my own experience in this. We all seek validation about the stand we take in life and we like to be believed, whatever about our differences. That is so important.

The Minister has given us an overview and has spoken about the fourth interim report and the reasons for the extension, which are reasonable. This is important in respect of Tuam.

I want to mention one group, the Bethany Home survivors group because they are constantly in touch with Members of the Seanad. Having examined documentation and spoke to a number of lawyers, I am firmly of the view that the State had a definite responsibility for the Bethany Home and the children who were there, neglected or abandoned because of the actions or the inactions of the State. It is not good enough any more for the arms of the State to keep telling this group that they are sorry it will be another year. I am in the Seanad two and a half years and from a group of ten who came to see me, three men are dead - one died from ill-health, another from cancer and the third died of natural causes. They yearned for somebody to listen to them tell their story. They have been on a long journey. The Church of Ireland has not taken responsibility for its involvement. The State had a responsibility to these children and, by its action or inaction, did not do enough for them. The surviving residents have made a strong case. Indeed the Commission has suggested that it sees no reason they were not included in the original redress scheme. The Minister knows and I know that to the initial redress scheme and the schedule of institutions that were attached to that scheme, many more institutions were added subsequently. It happened for some but it did not happen for Bethany Home residents.

We have to talk about apologies but we also have to talk about forgiveness and all that goes with it. In many cases these people have fought for so long, and experienced such pain, agony and hatred, they are embittered and angry and have a certain hatred for the establishment. We need to do something about that. I would like the Minister to deal with these people, particularly those from Bethany Home. What can we do to help them? I would like the Minister to look again at this whole area of therapeutic jurisprudence. This is a school of law that was developed in America in the 1980s and concentrates on the law's impact on a person's emotional and psychological well-being; it regards law as a social force that produces therapeutic and anti-therapeutic consequences. It sees the role of lawyers as capable of expanding to guard the psychological well-being of their clients. I think there is something in that. I will send the Minister the details of a paper that was written on that subject. People want justice and they want to get on with their lives. Some people will never be able to move on. When replying to the debate, could the Minister specifically deal with the people from Bethany Home?

I am hearing from highly placed sources that Cabinet Ministers, whose names I have but will not name, have made it very clear to the Minister and to others that they are not prepared to expose the State to the payment of any additional money under a redress scheme. They will talk about counselling, services, health and housing issues, but they are not prepared to follow the proven established way in respect of redress, which we have adopted and which is very similar to the Canadian scheme. I acknowledge the scheme had its shortcomings and was not the answer for a lot of people, and yes a lot of people got a lot of money but they do not have it now. People were taken advantage of. People turned to other issues and alcoholism and gambling and I would know some of these people. We have to have redress and for anyone who has been in a residential institution, for which the State had responsibility, we must be there to support them.

I acknowledge that the Minister has done the right thing and the honest thing. I would not have expected any less from her. I know it is most difficult. The Minister has told us that it needs another year, and we must stick with that. Perhaps she might look at Bethany Home and any other groups from such establishments wishing to come within the scheme's remit which the Minister, her departmental officials and the Attorney General can be satisfied fall within the remit of the State's responsibility