Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

The Senator made the assertion that "the Attorney General is wrong". I disagree because the Attorney General has given us advice on what constitutes a public service identity, and I have outlined the elements that would construct a public service identity.

The most important part of the section that we are dealing with is not the exclusive means. Section 7(6) states:

A specified body may not make presentation of a public services card or access to a person’s public service identity the exclusive basis by which a person may verify their identity in order to conduct a transaction or access a service.

The most important words are "to conduct a transaction or access a service". Conducting a transaction could be adding penalty points to someone's licence, assessing a tax liability, a demand from the Department for Agriculture, Food and the Marine for the return of an overpayment or a request to undertake jury duty. If the amendment was accepted and the Bill was sent to the Phoenix Park to be signed by the President, the criminal justice system would collapse in the morning because we would be unable to call people for jury duty. Some people might relish the opportunity of being unable to call people for jury duty. In general, we would not like that to happen because people could avail of this provision as a loophole and say that they will not provide their names, addresses, PPS numbers and dates of birth. A person may decide not to provide any information to the State in order for that transaction to be transacted between me and the State. The transaction could be defined as me participating, for instance, in jury duty, repaying underpaid tax or recouping an overpayment from the Departments of Employment Affairs and Social Protection or Agriculture, Food and the Marine. As a Minister of State, I must take the advice of the Attorney General on this matter and he has been explicit in this regard. These amendments were discussed at length in the Dáil. I acknowledge that outside interests are intensively lobbying, in good faith, for these amendments to be made. However, I must take the advice given by the Attorney General and the net effect of the amendments would be the grinding to a solitary halt of our public services to deliver services in some cases if people decided that they would not co-operate.

The Senator said that we could co-operate by other means, for instance, by showing one's passport. How would one get a person's passport in the first place if he or she has decided not to provide his or her birth certificate? If a person walks into a Garda station but has decided not to provide proof of evidence, because it is covered in the public service identity that has been defined by the Attorney General, which Senator Higgins disagrees with and is entitled to do so-----