David Norris (Independent) | Oireachtas source

Why, then, is Senator Conway chortling away? It is audible on the microphone. The Minister, Deputy Ross, excoriated this and called it an extraordinary waste of parliamentary time. He said he would not now indicate his intent to introduce any amendments on Report Stage. The Minister should publish his amendments if he is truly genuine about addressing the very obvious concerns that this Bill, which apart from being wholly objectionable is without any basis in sound policy making, interferes with the constitutional position. It is not sustainable for the Minister to tacitly indicate on Committee Stage that the Bill has potential constitutional issues and ask these Houses to pass it on Committee Stage when the Minister acknowledges that subsequent amendments addressing constitutional matters shall be required.

This is not about the price of milk or bread but is about the impact of the Bill, as read. The Minister has firmly indicated that he accepts the concerns which have been raised and accepts that constitutional issues arise. How can he, as a sworn officer of the Government and a Member of Dáil Éireann who has a stellar legal background, ask this House to accept a Bill to be read on Committee Stage when he knows there are constitutional issues around it? The rules of Standing Orders when it comes to Private Members' Bills, both in the Seanad and Dáil, state that if a Bill as drafted contains, in whole or in part, any objective which is unconstitutional, it does not get off the ground. That should be the same with this Bill. The same principle must apply when, at a particular reading of the Bill, the Minister has obtained amended or updated advices from the Attorney General to indicate that some constitutionality concerns do, in fact, exist. That is what the Minister has indicated in the present case and current scenario. He has indicated he will address some of the concerns on Report Stage.

The Minister explicitly stated: "I have listened carefully, particularly in regard to the role, words and deeds of the Attorney General, and what the Attorney General may or may not say and can or cannot do." This is clearly in direct relation to the amendment. These are clearly constitutional issues and the Minister knows there are. If he was to propose Report Stage amendments, he would be addressing a constitutional issue concerning the Attorney General which he has acknowledged to this House is problematic. Our duty, as Members of these Houses of the Oireachtas, is first and foremost to ensure that all legislation and every section therein is constitutional. The Bill cannot be read on Committee Stage if we all know, as the Minister has acknowledged, that it contains sections which at the very least are unconstitutional with respect to the Attorney General. That is my inference of what the Minister said and I would be very glad if he would clarify this.

Does the Minister agree that on 22 January 2019, the last occasion on which this Bill was before the House, he stated that he had listened carefully, particularly in regard to the role, words and deeds of the Attorney General, and what the Attorney General may or may not say and can or cannot do? He said he would come back to this on Report Stage in a way that would allow us to progress the Bill. He is clearly indicating that the Bill cannot progress as currently drafted, at least insofar as it affects the Attorney General, as to do so would be to knowingly pass a Bill which was unconstitutional. If that is not what the Minister is indicating, can he speak plainly as to why he believes a Report Stage amendment to the Bill concerning the role of the Attorney General is necessary to the progression of the Bill?

Quite clearly, the deal with Sinn Féin ensures that Fine Gael has a majority in the Seanad to pass the Bill as it currently stands. Sinn Féin has evaporated. I am shocked by that. There are only three of us here so I feel a quorum coming on. It is dreadful to think that these pearls of wisdom are not being flung before artificial swine.