Rónán Mullen (Independent) | Oireachtas source

The Minister is subjecting the unborn child to death. That is the difference. Every abortion situation involves a conflict of rights. This legislation dispossesses unborn children of the most basic human right, just as we celebrate and mark the 70th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. I refer also to conventions and documents that flowed from that, such as the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, the preamble of which describes the special care to which the child is entitled "before as well as after birth" because of his or her particular vulnerability.

I say to the Minister and to colleagues that it is not, as Senator Ardagh says, abhorrent. It should not cause Senator Noone to despair and she should not find it offensive. This amendment does not in any way subtract from the right of the woman to make the eventual decision to have the abortion. Obviously I am opposed to that decision, but that right is not in any way reduced. It does not apply to section 10 situations. It is a very limited amendment. It does not require the woman to view the ultrasound. It takes as its starting point the fact that in certain counselling situations there has been so much ideology around the promotion of abortion that women have been discouraged from even looking at the ultrasound. These clinics carry out ultrasound scans routinely. It is a means of gathering information. It is entirely irrelevant for the Minister to suggest that other tools might be more accurate. I would say "both-and" is always better than "either-or". The Minister talks about an extra visit. I ask him to expand on that. Presumably two visits will be involved in the case of a section 12 abortion anyway. The Minister says that international guidelines do not recommend it. Again, this is more vague ministerial speak.