Brian Ó Domhnaill (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I will be very brief and will not repeat myself. I thank the Chairman because he has been very fair. Senator Colm Burke and Senator Norris mentioned doctors and the Minister has a soundbite which is, "We should trust doctors". This is not about not trusting doctors - this is about supporting doctors by putting a public policy position in place which would be universally accepted across the State. It is not about administering pain relief prior to 20 weeks on some whim, or doing it one day and not another. We propose to put it in the legislation so that it is universally available because the scientific information backs it up. We are making this legislation today but who is to say that in days, weeks, months or years to come, termination of pregnancy services will not be provided through public hospitals but will be the subject of tender processes to private providers through a service level agreement? This amendment would deal with that.

There are many more points that I could make but it is very sad that the Minister is not willing to engage with, or even acknowledge, the scientific facts. I asked him two questions. One was if he would agree or disagree with the scientific evidence I have outlined to the House. The other was on which scientific investigations the Department carried out on unborn babies feeling pain at up to 20 weeks. Surely a scoping would have been done on the available research. If the Minister is not willing to accept the amendment I would like to know the Department's position around the issue of the pain a baby may experience at 20 weeks. Maybe the Department knows something I do not know. It is bad enough to proceed on the basis that babies will be aborted, and we have different views on that, but we should all be united on the basis that if we allow abortions to proceed, at least the aborted babies would not feel pain during the process. That is all we are looking for.