Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I understand what the Senator is trying to do but there are safeguards in place and a proper procedure. The wording in the Bill currently states that the CEO shall not be required to give an account before a committee of any matter relating to the general administration of the executive which is or has been or may be at a future time the subject of proceedings before a court or a tribunal in the State. The provision is not unique to this Bill. It is found in many other legislative measures and is essential to protect not just the integrity of any current court proceedings but also the integrity of any future court proceedings. Again, this is not just about protecting a health service or a State institution, it could also be about protecting a citizen who might well be involved in such proceedings.

Senator Devine described it as "wishy-washy" and I understand where she is coming from, but I do not believe it is. Beyond where the Senator proposes to amend the provision the legislation clearly sets out the process under which the provision may apply. First, the CEO must inform the committee if in his or her opinion this provision applies to a matter on which he or she has been asked to give an account and must give reasons for such an opinion. The person cannot just say, "I cannot talk about that because something might happen in the future". He or she must say why he or she cannot talk about it and give reasons for such an opinion. These reasons must be given by the individual either in person before the committee or in writing to the committee. Second, and this is an important safeguard, either the CEO or the chairperson of the committee may apply to the High Court within 42 days for a determination on the matter. If there is a conflict, and this does not usually arise, the High Court is there as an arbitrator to decide who is acting in the interests of the State and whether the view of the chairperson of the committee or of the CEO of the organisation is appropriate.

This process is the correct process and has the required safeguards to ensure transparency and accountability. These provisions are standard. They are not unique to the HSE or to the HSE board legislation but are standard across legislation in general. I am reluctant to depart from this precedent so I cannot accept the amendment.