David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I appreciate the energy and urgency in respect of this concept of the gender pay gap. Senators already alluded to the fact that it is not a simple topic but that matters become quite complex when we start to drill down into it. This is a very important issue and those on all sides are taking it seriously. There is no division in the House on the matter. I caution, however, that we should get this right versus getting it done speedily. We have to get it right.

When I spoke on Committee Stage on 25 October 2017, I indicated that Government was in agreement with the principles behind the Bill but there were issues with the specific approach proposed. Senator Bacik expressed a willingness to consider an alternative approach in which the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission, IHREC, would not have had the function of making the scheme for gender pay gap reporting, which would instead be the responsibility of the Government. The way we have done it is that IHREC can make a scheme and has discretion on whether it will exercise that power. The Government is saying that the Minister will make regulations and is required to do so. There is a subtle difference there. IHREC is totally independent and we want to respect that as well. We are saying that the Minister shall make regulations, there are no ifs or buts. The Minister is answerable to the Houses every week via parliamentary questions and so forth.

There are other issues as well but we said we would seriously examine the Bill with a view to bringing forth amendments on Report Stage and we did so. That was very sincere at the time but when we really went into it in detail and got advice on it from the Office of the Attorney General and others, it was apparent to the Minister and me that the amendments required would be quite extensive and would extend to the Long and Short Titles of the Bill. One fundamental difference between the Bill and the approach we propose is that the Private Members' Bill would amend the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission Act 2014, while our proposal in the Gender Pay Gap and Information Bill would mainly amend the Employment Equality Acts 1998 to 2015. The full extent of the differences between the present Bill and the Government's proposed approach can be seen by comparing the general scheme of the Gender Pay Gap and Information Bill with this Bill. That was the advice that we received. The principles that we have are identical and we all want to achieve the same result at the end of the day and I welcome the debate in this House on the occasions that I have been here, it has been very useful. We are not opposing the Bill passing through the Seanad. We will present the Gender Pay Gap and Information Bill to the Dáil or the Seanad in due course. As soon as the Joint Committee on Justice and Equality has completed its pre-legislative scrutiny on the heads of the Bill, we will publish it. I do not anticipate that the committee will bring forward any major changes but it may do so. We have to respect that and wait until the committee has completed its work.

The heads of the Bill were approved by the Government on 26 June 2018 - no time was lost - and were subsequently published on www.genderequality.ieand immediately forwarded to the Joint Committee on Justice and Equality. The committee will conduct pre-legislative scrutiny on the general scheme in late November and I look forward to that. Drafting of the Bill is at a very advanced stage and I look forward to its presentation as soon as possible after the pre-legislative scrutiny is completed. The advice that we received is that it would be easier to bring forward a new, more straightforward Bill than to amend this Bill but the thrust and the philosophy behind both of them are exactly the same. We all wish to achieve the same thing. This is a very interesting, challenging and complex area when we drill down into it. We have done much work and carried out much consultation in this area and all those I have engaged with on this - employers, trade unions, workers and big and small businesses - want to get it right.

The Government is approaching this from the point of view of fame rather than shame and many companies want to be on the right side of it. I thank colleagues here for their sincerity and co-operation in respect of this matter. Prior to Christmas - Senator Humphreys mention Christmas on a few occasions, and it is getting close - when pre-legislative scrutiny has been completed, I hope to be in a position to bring the Bill before the House in order that we might discuss it in detail.