Joe O'Reilly (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

It is good to see my constituency colleague, Senator Wilson, performing so well and so objectively in the Chair. Many people have put this debate in context by saying that there is a historical basis to post office closures, which have been going on for years. I think that point has been very well made. Nobody can escape that reality.

The Minister, Deputy Naughten, made a very spirited address. I have had the privilege of working with him on the Joint Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment, among other briefs. I am aware that €30 million has been invested in An Post and that an unpalatable political step was taken when it was decided to increase the price of a postage stamp. This was done to arrive at the situation we are in today, where An Post is in a profitable position. The Minister and my party colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Kyne, are very committed to this process and are very sincere about doing the right thing.I have a number of questions to which I hope the Minister of State, Deputy Kyne, will respond. I am anxious to be assured that the appeals system will be vigorous, will have teeth and that there will be victories in the system. By definition, there should be but the cynical view of the appeals system is that it is a form of window dressing. I do not want that to be the case and want to know that there will be a vigorous appeals system. We are all solution-focused here and I want to be assured that there will be a real, rather than just stated, opportunity for other businesses in a town or village to tender for a contract to replace a closed post office and to offer services. I would like the Minister of State to elucidate the point around the cards that would be available to pensioners to enable them to withdraw their pensions in cash from certain shops. Could these be made widely available?

I have declared myself, on the record, a consistent supporter of An Post and was active when there was a threat to the six-day delivery service. I have done my best on that, both at committee level and elsewhere. I am a member of the Joint Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment because I am committed to post offices and to broadband. Indeed, that is why I opted for that committee in the first instance.

I have made a point privately to the Minister, Deputy Naughten, and will now make it publicly to the Minister of State, Deputy Kyne, and to the House. We must understand that the traditional rural, market town is the hub of a community. It is the focal point of a community and the centre of congregation. Of course, while we all want to prevent any possible post office closure by positive action, we must address the question of small towns losing post offices. In the context of appeals and of other businesses taking over, this should be looked at.

Small towns are the focal point for a wider hinterland or community. They are the centre for local businesses. In Killeshandra in Cavan, for example, the post office is threatened with closure. Lakeland Dairies, which is a major agrifood business and a major employer, is located nearby and there is a myriad of small and medium-sized businesses around Killeshandra. Kilnaleck and its catchment is an area of major intensive farming, particularly mushroom growing and is also important for tourism. Kilnaleck is a very important focal point for its hinterland. Mount Nugent village centre is an important tourist location in County Cavan and plays an important role as a hub and the same is true of Swanlinbar, a Border community with its new Geopark.

I can only speak about my county, but a number of small towns are being hit by this decision. It is my contention, as I said to the Minister privately, that every possible step should be taken to ensure that people in those areas do not suffer any loss of service. It is important that old age pensioners are able to access cash and other post office services. What I would like for Kilnaleck, Mount Nugent, Swanlinbar and Killeshandra is that each of them would have a comprehensive post office service.

I want to move on to discuss the idea of the expanded business model and the various recommendations in the Kerr report. I understand from the Minister, who is a very straight and honest man, that 17 recommendations in the Kerr report have already been implemented, with two more to follow. If we are going to implement the Kerr report and if we are really committed to the new business model and keeping the post offices open, where will we locate post offices if we take them out of small towns? Where will we have viable post offices if they are not viable in the towns I have mentioned like Killeshandra, Kilnaleck, Swanlinbar and Mount Nugent? Can they be viable anywhere, given the hinterland of the aforementioned towns?

It has been said that there might be approximately 400 people in these towns but if one takes the perimeters around them and the ribbon developments around them, one is up to over 1,100 people in the case of Killeshandra and to around 1,200 in the case of Kilnaleck, for example. My colleague, Councillor Paddy Smith in Ballyjamesduff, has done in-depth research on this and has found that if one includes a very small area around these towns, one well exceeds a population of 500. I attended a meeting in Kilnaleck last week alongside Senator Wilson, who is equally committed to trying to do something for these towns. At that meeting we discovered that these towns have a hinterland that is also worth considering.

I will now turn to the issue of the business model. I am delighted that the six-day week is being preserved and that a parcel service is available on Saturdays. I am also delighted that a credit card facility is available, as well as a currency conversion service. I welcome the fact that personal and business loan facilities will be made available shortly. All of that must and should happen and must be maintained and supported. We must make positive contributions to this debate. There is no point in us coming in here in an Animal Farmmanner saying "Four legs good, two legs bad", "All closures bad, all openings good", and so on. That sort of nonsense is for platforms and lorries at election time. We must talk sense here.

That said, I note a lack of awareness in communities of the services available in post offices, particularly the newer services. A vigorous advertising campaign is needed and postmasters and postmistresses must be incentivised to inform customers in their catchment areas and to canvass for these services. There is a lack of awareness and insufficient take up of these services. I am a public representative and have had the privilege of being in this House for a number of years but were it not for the fact that I became involved in the debate a few weeks ago, I would not have known about one or two of these services myself. I did not know of the existence of the currency service, for example. I did not know about the availability of different currencies in post offices. If I was not aware of them then I suspect there is a general lack of awareness.

If one asks holiday makers going to a destination outside the eurozone where they are going to get the necessary currency, they will tell one they will get it in the local bank. Awareness of services is important, as is maintaining the business model and widening the services available in each area. Marketing is essential.

I look forward to the Minister of State's response to the point about taking into account the small towns. If one closes a post office in a small town, it is an implicit admission that the entire service is gone. I accept the point that the existing postmaster or postmistress has a right to retire and to take the redundancy package but customers must be able to go into another shop. It cannot be a question of saying that the opportunity is there; we must actively seek another shop in these towns. We must make post office services available, including providing cards to pensioners so that they can access their money. That would bring people into the other shops.

It is alleged that the possibility of generating an income is not available to other shops but I do not believe that. It would be good for throughput and they must have a commitment to their village. I ask the Minister of State to elaborate on the potential income for other shops, either in the House today or privately. We have a duty to give potential bidders that information.