Charles Flanagan (Laois, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

-----of Government. I mentioned to Senator McDowell - I am not sure whether Senator Norris was present - that the chair of the Public Appointments Service is retired Secretary General, Mr. Tom Moran. His board, the full particulars of which I would be happy to lay before the House, includes Mr. Eddie Molloy and other persons with a strong track record in public service. The CEO is Ms Fiona Tierney. The latest experience that Government has had with the Public Appointments Service was the very successful competition run by the Policing Authority through the Public Appointments Service for the nomination to Government of the new Garda Commissioner. The body is entirely independent of Government. As I mentioned in the context of the increased judicial independence under the Bill, the new commission dealing with the Judiciary will be entirely independent of Government. It is not true to say, as has been said, that judges are debarred or disqualified from the new commission. In fact, I was very pleased, following discussion with the judges, that we were in a position to amend the Bill to include a greater reference to judges and a greater involvement of members of the Judiciary.

Senator Craughwell and others speak about a new system, which of course is envisaged under the Bill, but I must say yet again that under our Constitution the Government and no other group, body or authority decides who to recommend for appointment to the President. The Bill, together with any changes to it proposed in this House between now and its conclusion, must operate within the context and confines of our Constitution. I refer specifically to Article 35, providing that judges shall be appointed by the President, and Article 13, concerning the powers and functions conferred on the President by the Constitution and exercisable and performable only by him on the advice of the Government. The position in that regard is not changing. There is no constitutional referendum or amendment proposed that might indicate as much, nor have I heard any calls for a constitutional referendum to take the power to advise the President from Government and ultimately for the President to appoint the judges.

The Bill has been very carefully constructed following consultation. Senator McDowell is right that the former Minister, Mr. Alan Shatter, initiated this process of change, reform and modernisation some five years ago by engaging in a public consultation which formed part of the process. The Bill now ensures full participation by the Judiciary following an amendment that we were pleased to debate, successfully so, in the Lower House, providing that judges at the highest level and the presidents of all the courts will be ex officiomembers of the new commission. This is something that GRECO welcomes and which, to my mind, allays many of the fears and concerns expressed by that organisation. We now have representatives of all the courts, whereas when the Bill was drafted in the first instance, it did not provide for membership of all the presidents of all the courts on the commission.

The reason we now propose an expanded commission is to ensure the Government's core objectives of having a non-legal or lay chair and a non-legal or lay majority are met. The non-judicial cohort of people who will serve on the commission will be selected by the Public Appointments Service, an independent body operating to the highest standards and an organisation that we trust to operate the selection processes for the highest public officials and officeholders, including those who operate independently of Government. Therefore, no departure from international norms, which Senators appear to suggest was the fundamental flaw in the Bill, is proposed. We must have regard to our common law system. I said last week - and it bears repetition because the point was raised again in the course of the debate this afternoon - that what we are doing here is not dissimilar to what pertains or operates across the water in England and Wales and also Scotland.

I listened to Senator Craughwell talk about his cardiologist. I am still at a loss as to what relevance the Senator's cardiologist has to the Judicial Appointments Commission Bill. I do not want to provoke him into further repetition.