Michael McDowell (Independent) | Oireachtas source

-----to be the lay members of this commission - whether they are to be in the majority or the minority - he will be at liberty to choose the best person among them for the job, without reference to whether that person is a lawyer or judge or was within the relevant time period. I will reiterate that it is amazing that a legal academic will be on the inside track to be appointed and will also be considered a lay person for the purposes of this process.

I congratulate Senator Bacik. She did not table an amendment on that. We are not trying to force any solution on the Minister. We are simply saying that, when he surveys what the PAS has come up with, he should look at the entire process, bring his resolution and say that he proposes that a given person should be the chairperson of this commission, having regard to the talents of all the members. He should not be in a position where he would have chosen a particular person but did not because that person had practised law or was a judge in the past 15 years. This definition of lay member including the chairperson also has another life in other sections in respect of the procedures committee of the commission. The committee drafts the criteria, the appointments procedures and all so on. The Bill excludes any lawyer from being a member of that committee.

I am not filibustering at all; I am being serious. I told the Minister on Second Stage that I would not obstruct his Bill and I am not being obstructive of the Bill. However, earlier the Seanad divided on whether the GRECO report should be shown to us before we start on this State or are done with this Bill. The report is in the possession of the Government. The Minister has it and he can show it to us. I have the sinking feeling that a certain person whom I will not mention does not want us to see it and that, as a result, the Government will not make a decision on whether to respond to what was sent to it by GRECO until after all of this is finished. That is an indefensible position.

The Minister says that the Seanad voted to continue today's proceedings earlier this evening. It did, but why is it that I should not see this report? All of us here are reasonable people. Why should any of us have sight of this report withheld from us while we deliberate? Is it because it could not affect our decision or because it should not affect our decision? Is it because the Government considers the report to be mistaken? Is it because it might produce an unfortunate result from the Government's point of view? Why are we being kept away from this report? I accept that the decision was made to press on with Committee Stage today, notwithstanding that we did not see that report, but I ask the Minister to consider that the request to see the report is entirely sincere. If it says something that some people would not like to have published, that is difficult to deal with or that is slightly embarrassing, let us have it out there. Sunshine is the great disinfectant. If we can see what the GRECO criticism has been watered down to after the amendments made in the Dáil and if we can see what it is saying about our system, we can take it into account in how we deal with the votes on the various amendments. Let us also take it into account when we come to Report Stage amendments. Let us see whether we want to accommodate the views of GRECO in what we finally put out of this House as the final version of this Bill. No harm could be done by that, but a lot of good could be done by doing it.

I do not want to use the term "shameful" because the Minister will just dismiss that, but I do want to use the terms "inexplicable" and "unjustifiable". It is inexplicable and unjustifiable that this House should be kept in the dark about a report which was not there in its present form when the other House completed its deliberations. I would like to have somebody explain to me why I cannot see it. I would love to have somebody explain for one minute why it would do damage if all of us in this House were to see the report and to take it into account in our deliberations. I do not believe there is a reasonable excuse for it and that makes me think that there is an unreasonable motivation behind keeping us in the dark on this matter.