Michael McDowell (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I am replying to the proposition that I was playing the man and not the ball. I am saying these are the objective facts; not subjective facts. These are the objective facts and the people of Ireland know this to be the case. We can wallpaper over these cracks all we like, but it is true, as Senators Craughwell and Boyhan have said, that the Minister's colleagues in the Oireachtas know this to be the case.Let us forget that.

The Minister's version of the Bill simply refers to diversity. I did not table an amendment to that as I am content with it. Senator Ruane has asked him to explicate that diversity in particular ways. I am worried about the implication of what she proposes in respect of socioeconomic diversity, as that is pointless. I concede to Senator Ruane that it would not be pointless in respect of the make-up of the lay membership of the JAAB, but it does not make sense to attempt to achieve socioeconomic diversity among the Judiciary because they are all lawyers who have practised or legal academics who have reached a point of seniority. It is a farce to say that they should be socioeconomically diverse.

My second point relates to the exclusion of non-lay members. I want to re-emphasise this point which, in fairness, the Minister has more or less accepted. The amendment we have tabled to remove the words, "and includes the chairperson", from the definition of lay member was simply designed to make any of the lawyers, any of the ex officiomembers and any of the judicial members eligible to be chairman of the commission. It was not designed to say they must be chairman of the commission or that the lay people could not be chairperson of the commission. As I understand the structure of the Bill, the Minister will, in the end, bring a motion before the Dáil to confirm who should be the chairperson and who should be the ordinary members of this commission, based on a Public Appointments Service, PAS, recruitment and recommendatory process. The Minister's amendment, No. 36, will also affect this process. All I am asking is that, when the Minister sits down and takes a look at the PAS's recommendations in terms of lay people-----