Charles Flanagan (Laois, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

-----on behalf of Government, as the Minister for Justice and Equality, the Government and I have full confidence and trust in the Judiciary which has served the State in an excellent manner since its foundation. I want to be clear on that point because there has been reference to an alternative viewpoint. I do not believe the sky will fall in if we have a commission with a non-legal, non-judicial majority or a non-legal, non-judicial chair. In that regard, I will point particularly to an amendment I introduced in the Dáil to ensure that, notwithstanding the non-legal majority and non-legal chair, we would still have - because I believe it is important - representation on the commission of members of the Judiciary in the form of the Presidents of the courts. We will come to that later when dealing with that section. It serves as an important reminder of the role and function judges will still play in the process, albeit in a minority position. Between now and the end of the debate in the Seanad, we can craft legislation that is balanced and a commission that is not comprised exclusively of, or even have a majority of, members of the legal profession. They will be represented in the form of a representative of the Bar Council, a representative of the Law Society, a representative of other groups in civil society with a particular interest and a number of judges. All courts will be represented. That represents balance in an appointments system that befits a modern democracy.

I will deal briefly with amendment No. 5 in the name of Senator Bacik and others. Senator Bacik is seeking to add a new subsection (3) to section 2 of the Bill which deals with definitions. The focus of the amendment is on the term "A person employed in the service of the State". That term is used in the definition of "law officer". The purpose of the definition of the term "law officer" is to signify that anyone so designated would be excluded from the definition of "lay person". The purpose of the amendment is to expressly include as such law officers a member of the Garda Síochána, a member of the Defence Forces and a civil servant of the State.

The thinking behind reference to "law officer" is to capture those persons working in the service of the State in circumstances where they have taken up such employment. A person had to have been, in many cases, a practising solicitor or barrister for a period of time. What was in mind was such persons employed, for example, in the Chief State Solicitor's office, the Office of the Attorney General or the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions. There are many individuals working in the service of the State who do have the qualification of solicitor or barrister. Some may have been in practice for a number of years prior to taking up that employment. They may be working in the Garda Síochána, the Defence Forces or anywhere across the Civil Service. Recently at the Garda College in Templemore I was struck that a number of young, ambitious, energetic, well-educated and well-trained gardaí were already members of the legal profession. It is important for the Garda because it adds value to the service. The law must be as certain and definitive as it can be in this regard. The intention is to relate those who exercise functions relevant to legal practice to the category of person the definition of lay person excludes as well as those who are judges or who have held judicial office in the past. It is not necessary to expand the persons excluded from the definition of lay person in the manner in which the Labour Party is proposing.I am not inclined to do that as I do not believe it is necessary. In that regard I am reluctant to accept the amendment.