Charles Flanagan (Laois, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I am here to listen, as I said on the conclusion of the Second Stage debate. I have listened with some interest. Three amendments have been tabled and have prompted much interesting debate.

In response to Deputy Norris, I did not say that I regretted the vote, but rather that I respected the vote. I respect it and I am bound by it as far as the time schedule for this Bill is concerned. We do not have a time schedule for Committee Stage. I do not have a problem with that. I am very keen to listen to Senators and to engage with them. If this legislation can be improved, then let us set about doing so. However, I want to acknowledge how far we have come with the legislation.

On the three amendments with which we are dealing, it is important that we remind ourselves that amendment No. 3, in the name of Senator Ruane, merely offers a definition of the term "diversity".The term "diversity" is used in a number of the provisions of the Bill, including in the merit provision in section 7 in terms of objectives, section 12, as alluded to earlier by Senator Dolan, and Part 8 which addresses the design of the selection process for judicial appointment and the attributes to be sought in those that may come forward by way of application for consideration for appointment. I am always interested in hearing what Senators have to say on that issue. In general terms, the Bill signals the need to include on the commission, as well as across the Judiciary, people from different backgrounds. It also contains directions of a legislative nature. For example, section 7 provides that in making a recommendation on merit regard shall be had to the objective that the membership of the Judiciary should, to the extent feasible and practicable, reflect the diversity within the population as whole. This is a worthy objective and one which I believe is attainable. The debate which has taken place over the past two hours seems to me to have been a debate on diversity on the one hand and scholarship on the other. I will leave it to Senators to decide which should supersede but I do not think we can have one without the other. Under the Bill, the commission will be required to have regard to that. There has been no compelling argument for further definition of diversity in the Bill. I am anxious that the House not divide on this issue. If Senator Ruane is willing to withdraw her amendment, or at least refrain from pressing at this Stage, I am happy to examine how much further we can go but I am not inclined to meet what is proposed in the amendment.

Having regard to the objectives contained in the legislation, as suggested by Senators Craughwell and Boyhan, we should examine whether there are barriers to entry to the professions that may exclude particular people and consider what we can do in that regard. It is important that we address issues such as access to legal education, in which the Legal Services Regulatory Authority has a role to play. It is currently examining this issue and I expect to receive a report in that regard shortly. We acknowledge the direct reference to diversity in the Bill. The procedures committee will be required to review the manner in which the diversity considerations in the Bill are being implemented. Senators spoke about a review. The work of the procedures committee is a form of review. The committee will also make recommendations on these matters and the Minister of the day will be required to report to the Oireachtas as provided for in the Bill. I will give the matter further consideration but my preference is to leave the development of the necessary procedures and practices in regard to such matters to the arrangements already provided for in the Bill. This will borne out of the experience of the operation of Act.

Senator McDowell will be aware that the genesis of this Bill is a commitment in the programme for Government. Amendment No. 4 seeks the deletion of a reference in the definition of lay member contained in section 2 such that the definition of lay member would no longer include the chairperson. I am unable to accept the premise that the chairperson should not be a lay member on the basis that this-----