Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent) | Oireachtas source

The point is that the merit argument was used in respect of the gender quota and was used for years.

We need to support the idea of diversity. I am sure it can be strengthened in how it is formulated. I am sure my colleague would be willing to work with people around that. It is important that we are serious about diversity.

In respect of the other two amendments, I am torn on the question of the chairperson. I have huge respect for the Chief Justice. We are blessed with our current Chief Justice who is an exceptional and excellent person. I understand, nonetheless, the intention to ensure that the board should not be simply a space which is entirely captured in which those lay persons who are participating do not feel they cannot fully contribute or engage.

I am also not comfortable with the chairperson being appointed by the Minister. There is still a question around that appointment. I have put forward my own amendment which comes in later. I may not press it as I may look for a stronger formulation. I am happy to work with others across the House on it. My amendment proposes the commission selects its own chair. I support the idea of the lay majority. Whether a one-person majority is sufficient, I do not know.

What is important is the skills that this chairperson needs. I agree it is important they would have legal knowledge. They need to have legal knowledge but also excellent communication skills and be accessible. What none of us wants is a divided or divisive forum in which we set presumptions about lay persons against presumptions about the law and legal persons. We need to ensure we have a chair who will facilitate constructive co-operation, as well as the bringing of all skills, perspectives and diversities to the table in the decision-making process.

On some of the questions around where one went to school and so forth, none of these is the way diversity is determined in any modern workplace or elsewhere where it is actively pursued. Where they do come up is in the legal system, however. I know many who have struggled to get the opportunity to devil because they do not have nice answers or, as was put eloquently by Senator Conway, they are not sending positive signals that they are like-minded or come from similar backgrounds. It can be hard for people like that to find their way in the system.This is an opportunity to provide an incentive for them.

I support the spirit of the Labour Party's amendment but I wonder if other categories might need to be added to the definition because there are some persons who might be considered to be in the service of the State who may not be covered by its provisions. That is a matter which could, perhaps, be revisited.