Victor Boyhan (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister to the House. He was not here earlier when Members had a fairly heated debate about the Group of States Against Corruption, GRECO, report but I will leave him with one line before turning to talk about the amendments. The Minister or members of the Government might reflect on the GRECO report tonight, which I understand to be a very significant report. It has been leaked in certain sections. Several people have suggested they have had sight of it. It might be helpful for us where this Bill is concerned if the Minister or the Government would consider releasing this important report. It impacts on this Bill. I said earlier that this will come back to haunt us. If half of what is suggested in this report is true, it will haunt the Government and may cause problems for the Government itself.

I am not here to ridicule any particular Minister. That is not for me to do. I want to be constructive in respect of the Bill. I spoke to one of the Minister's officials today but I have no indication as to the Minister's support for any of these amendments. Given the amount of time we are spending on this one, it might be helpful if between now and tomorrow, or the next day we address this business, we started having more engagement with the Minister, his Department and his officials. It would be helpful to get some indication of goodwill in support of these amendments. I think it is helpful for the process. The Minister, Deputy Flanagan, is busy, as are his officials. We too are busy. Setting that aside, I am appealing to the Minister to ask his officials to engage with us tomorrow and the next day to see where we can meet halfway if at all possible. That is important.

The next point is that the Minister and the Government are not fooling me because I have spoken to several very senior people in Fine Gael who are grossly unhappy with this legislation. There is suggestion here that poor Deputy Ross is struggling because the boys who share the Cabinet table with him really do not want this Bill to go through at all. Perhaps that is the case. I do not want to think that but I am aware that the Minister, Deputy Ross, has been busy on the telephones, ringing around, looking for support. The Taoiseach himself has been around looking for support and yet I meet Fine Gael Senators and Deputies, and Ministers for that matter, who look up when the Bill is mentioned. They do not say very much. The eyes go up to heaven. They do not believe in it. That is the reality, of it and the Minister knows that. I appeal to him to get this GRECO report out tomorrow. I think it is very important. I think we can expect to hear some more tomorrow. I understand that a number of Sunday papers will publish aspects of the GRECO report. The Minister knows and I know that it is out there.I do not know what the problem is. I do not know why the Government has decided to hide this important GRECO report that deals with real issues. As I said earlier, when an issue like this arose before the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, and former backbencher in the House stood up and roared and screamed about openness, transparency and accountability. Now he has shut the door for some reason and prevented the Minister for Justice and Equality and his colleagues from publishing the GRECO report. Perhaps the Minister present will address the matter today, if he so wishes. Before the week is out the media will publish a substantial element of the GRECO report. I hope that he will remember I said so when he reads the report in the media in the next few days.

Amendment No. 4 is an absolute disgrace and raises very serious questions about the Government. It shows that the Government wishes to exclude judges. Judges are in a very difficult position because they cannot enter the political arena and make a case. Let us consider the many distinguished judges who have served this country. I am particularly mindful of Mrs. Justice Susan Denham. In a very coded way she tried to make some calls on the judicial appointments commission and other forms of reform, in terms of judges. The separation of powers precludes judges from entering the political arena. I know that the Minister is a lawyer and knows this business very well. We are precluding them. It is an insult to the Judiciary that they are precluded from allowing their name, or a lawyer for that matter, but someone with legal practice and of good standing to allow their name to even be considered. They have been excluded. There is a vendetta against the Judiciary. I am not from the Judiciary, none of my family is a member of the Judiciary, and I have no relations or contacts with the legal profession. The citizens of this country have been well served by the Judiciary. The Minister knows that and all of the Senators know that. For some reason someone has decided to exclude judges. Therefore, judges cannot talk for themselves but we are here to talk and use the platform that is Seanad Éireann to highlight concerns. It is important that judges are not excluded.

I wish to refer to the Office of the Chief Justice, and not the individual. If this Government respects the office of Chief Justice then it will allow this. To pot with the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport declaring that he will not let the legislation through or that it will not happen because he made the deal with the Government. I say let him walk. The Government has a B team and can select many people. The Government can go west, south, east, etc. I urge the Government to call his bluff. He will struggle to retain his seat in the three-seater Rathdown constituency and, if so, Fianna Fáil will get a second seat and there will be two for Fine Gael. Is that not the party's target and plan?