Martin Conway (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I know the Minister, Deputy Harris, has just left the House but I concur with other speakers on the job of work he is doing. I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Catherine Byrne. Of course the people of Ireland expect nothing less than the job of work the Minister is doing. This is a scandal and it is happening on our watch. We have a responsibility to ensure that it is dealt with.

Senator Craughwell just mentioned the most important fact of all, namely, that all of the facts must be put out there in order to inform those who need to be informed. People should be informed as a matter of absolute urgency.

I know the Minister has updated us in respect of the number of people who have now been informed but we absolutely need the scoping exercise which is going to take place and the commission of investigation to establish the who, where, how, what and so on. More fundamentally, we need a change of culture not just within the HSE - although there absolutely must be such a change in the HSE - but across the public service. Something similar to what has happened in the HSE recently happened in the Department of Justice and Equality. There has to be a sea change in how information is filtered up from various Departments to Government and to the Minister's desk.

What has happened here has been appalling. We are talking about people's health and people not being informed of a particular situation. It is absolutely appalling and absolutely not acceptable. We need to put structures in place under which there will be clear communication and under which a Minister will not be handed a briefing document with additional information 20 minutes before going into the Dáil. We should not be in that situation. Whoever the Minister of the day is, regardless of his or her party, he or she should not have to be in a situation in which he or she is given this type of information. It needs to change.

How should it change? It is up to the experts in change management to come in and put the structures in place. It is fairly clear to me that information has to be channelled up to the Minister in an appropriate way, in good time and in a speedy fashion. I hope situations like this will not happen again, but other situations clearly will. There are going to be more court cases. Of that there is no doubt. A level of priority has to be given so that, when there is a court case which is settled, the various elements of information surrounding it are properly communicated in order that other people who may be affected are informed. The whole scenario in which there is no clear information or no information in good time is absolutely appalling. If we have learned anything from this, I hope we will put proper structures in place to ensure this type of thing does not happen again.

Like other people, I pay special tribute to Vicky Phelan because sometimes courageous people are a catalyst for change. I truly believe that Vicky Phelan will be a catalyst for change. The Minister has given an absolute commitment and I know that commitment will be followed up because Vicky Phelan and the other Vicky Phelans who have been affected by this deserve absolutely nothing less. We all have a role to play in supporting the people who are trying to do the right thing. This debate in the Seanad has been useful because we want to assist in articulating a voice for the people who have been affected and we want to ensure that the change does happen because that is what people want.