Catherine Byrne (Dublin South Central, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I know that other Senators will come in, but I acknowledge and make clear to Senators Warfield and Gavan, who are presenting this Bill, as well as the other Senators involved in the introduction of the Bill, that it is widely supported in this House and that many Senators feel very strongly about this issue.

The Bill’s objective is to prohibit conversion therapy, an extremely worrying practice. Senators have spoken powerfully, and I know that other Senators will speak about it as well. I wish to make clear at the outset that the Minister and I fully appreciate the reasons this Bill was brought forward. The Government will not oppose this Bill.

I believe that conversion therapy is at odds with both our domestic equality legislation and our international human rights obligations. These are important to our country. In terms of commitment to equality, Senators will also know that the programme for partnership Government gives a commitment to develop a LGBTI+ national youth strategy. This is a key commitment for the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Zappone, and makes a contribution towards the Government’s broader commitment to continue to strive for full inclusion of LGBTI+ people in Ireland. The strategy will be the first of its kind in the world. The Minister for Justice and Equality is also at the early stages of developing a national LGBTI+ strategy.

Turning to the details of the Bill, it is fair to say that while this is a short Bill it has significant implications. It is important therefore that this Bill to ban conversion therapy is carefully examined in order that it meets its objectives. Section 1 is the interpretation section which sets out the key terms in the Bill. It defines conversion therapy as meaning "any practice or treatment by any person that seeks to change, suppress and-or eliminate a person’s sexual orientation, gender identity and-or gender expression", and "does not include any practice or treatment which does not seek to change a person’s sexual orientation, gender identity and-or gender expression", or which "provides assistance to an individual undergoing gender transition" or "provides acceptance, support and understanding of a person, or a facilitation of a person’s coping, social support and identity exploration and development, including sexual orientation-neutral interventions". Related terms such as sexual orientation, gender identity and gender expression are in turn defined.

Sections 2 and 3 are very important provisions on offences and penalties, and it is useful to outline them here. The Bill says, it will be an offence for any person to "perform or offer to perform conversion therapy on a person", to "advertise conversion therapy" or "remove a person from the State for the purposes of conversion therapy". It will be an offence for a professional to perform conversion therapy on a person, irrespective of whether monetary compensation is received in exchange or to refer a person to other professionals or to any other person or both to perform conversion therapy. In addition, a person is guilty of an offence if the person removes a person from the State where one of the purposes for the removal is to have conversion therapy performed upon that person or if the person does or attempts to perform conversion therapy on another person in a place other than the State but only if it is done or attempted to be done on board an Irish ship, on an aircraft registered in the State or by a person who is a citizen of Ireland or is ordinarily resident in the State and would constitute an offence in the place in which it is done. In regard to professionals as defined in the Bill, the Bill also provides that if a professional is found guilty of an offence under section 2 of the Bill, a court shall direct that the body regulating that profession, or any other regulatory body as deemed necessary, are notified of the conviction.

The Government fully sees the intentions of this Bill but is concerned, based on legal advice, that the Bill is not clear enough in its language. Any issue with clarity will lead to difficulties. The definition of conversion therapy is itself open to an extremely broad interpretation. As I mentioned, there is reference to any practice or treatment by any person that seeks to change or to suppress a person’s sexual orientation or gender identity. A difficulty, for example, is that it is not clear what practice or treatment is covered here. I note as well that the definition of "professional" covers an extremely broad spectrum. It refers to a person who is in possession of an official qualification or a warrant to practice or both as a care worker, counsellor, educator, family therapist, medical practitioner, pathologist, psychologist, psychotherapist, psychiatrist, social worker or youth worker.It would be useful to hear more about the thinking on this. I know the Senators will agree it is of vital importance that, where a criminal offence is created, especially with imprisonment on conviction, the actions which amount to an offence are clear and unambiguous. We would have to be clear on the wording in the Bill so there is certainty on what amounts to an offence under this Bill.

It important, therefore, that if we are to achieve the objective of the Bill, we must work together to look at what changes may be needed. Another point is that it is very apparent that dealing with legislation on conversion therapy will need appropriate input across Government as part of the examination of the Bill. We also need to get an evidence base to establish the prevalence of conversion therapy in Ireland.

I again express my thanks to Senator Warfield for introducing this Bill and to the other Senators. I very much welcome the debate and, on a personal basis, I look forward to working with the Senator further on the Bill during its journey through the Houses. I believe in this Bill. While a number of issues have been raised at the legal end, I believe the Bill should be enacted as soon as possible. It is very important that people should not be coerced or in any way made feel they are not a whole person due to their identity or sexual orientation, and that they have the right to choose their sexuality now and into the future. I again thank Senators Warfield and Gavan.