Victor Boyhan (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister of State. I do not for one moment doubt his absolute commitment. I get a sense that he relishes and is excited about the plans for the reform of local government. He is someone with whom I worked on the General Council of County Councils. I know of his vigour, enthusiasm and commitment to local government.

I looked at the numbers on my database for county councillors. I will give the Minister of State the figures. The round figure is 950. There are approximately 235 Fine Gael councillors; 266 Fianna Fáil councillors; 147 Sinn Féin councillors; 202 independent councillors; 50 Labour Party councillors; 12 Green Party councillors; and 38 others. That gives one a sense of the dynamics involved. I do not think it is a party thing. Across the House, we all recognise the need for politicians at every level in the parliamentary process and local government to be remunerated fairly. We have to obtain a fair deal for councillors. The Minister of State was involved with LAMA and the AILG. A number of Fine Gael councillors who met the Minister of State in private session in Dungarvan were excited by all of the promises made, but they are not so excited today. Different political groupings have had their expectations raised only to be disappointed.

I will focus unapologetically on proper and fair remuneration for councillors. I propose that it be €28,000, at a minimum, and possibly €30,000. I make no apologies and do not care if Joe Duffy is listening.I am prepared to go on any television or radio station and argue strongly that the elected members of all parties need to be treated fairly in terms of their commitment. Someone asked me once to describe what is the job of a county councillor. I said: "Well, it is a bit of a cross synergy really because you're a bit of a priest, you're a bit of a social worker, you're a bit of an advocate and, to a lesser extent, you're a bit of a politician, and you have to juggle a lot of demands, a lot of asks, in your own community." There is nothing worse than not being able to deliver for your own community. One of the great things about local government in this country, and for that matter, all politics in this country, is that the electorate has very easy and ready access to politicians. I think that is a good and a very healthy thing. It is something that does not happen across Europe but it certainly happens in Ireland. It is very frustrating when one is asked and challenged to make a strong case for one's community and the people one lives among and for enterprise and community initiatives and one cannot deliver. However, parking all of that, a lot of people want to remain in local government but they cannot sustain their job in local government and are going to have to leave.

It is incumbent on the Minister of State to stop all the promises. I will read a letter I wrote to the Minister, Deputy Paschal Donohoe, on 8 February 2018 and I received a response on 13 April. I have it in front of me. In summary, it says that I raised a number of questions in relation to sitting county councillors and their remuneration, but the Minister informed me that the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, is to consider sitting county councillors' pay in the first instance. That is what is happening. Every time I meet someone it is a case of Paschal or the Minister is looking at it. When I meet another Minister he tells me the Department is dealing with it. It is a joke. I do not think we should apologise about paying the councillors a fee. It has to be in the context of better local government, which is part of the Government's reform for local government. A whole load of changes are planned as we go forward.

I must tell the Minister that councillors from his party and from none, Independents, Fianna Fáil, Sinn Féin and the Labour Party, People Before Profit and the not for profit, whoever they are, are absolutely frustrated and they do not believe they have any real champion. It is easy for me as an Independent to say this. There are three Fine Gael Ministers in the Custom House. There is a Fine Gael Minister in the Department of Finance. I ask Fine Gael councillors what influence they have. Why do they keep telling me that in another few weeks they will be getting this or that? That is not to point score but I just want to make the point that the time has come to give those people proper recognition for their work and proper pay to sustain them because far too many councillors have told me they are dipping into their pockets, into their housekeeping money, to pay and to subsidise their work on behalf of local communities. If we do not value ourselves, who else will?

People in the Minister of State's party and none want to stay in local government and the time has come for action. I would like to hear today from the Minister of State how much progress he has made in getting an independent chair. Could he give a short timeframe rather than a long one? Could whatever recommendations that he will support be implemented without delay, not on a promise and not next year? If the committee and terms of reference are established with an independent chair in the next few weeks, could we set a target? Could the Minister of State come back here, hopefully at the end of September with hard commitments for us to implement? That is what people would like and I do not doubt for one moment that is what the Minister of State would like.