Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I will not touch on the issues raised in regard to media mergers, except in so far as the Minister raised the question of his regret about the phone call that he made to Mr. Ó Neachtain. I accept the Minister has regret over the phone call, but I appeal for us to be careful about the language we use. It is important if we are to restore the confidence of the public in politics that we do not suggest, for example, that it is personal when we talk to a key stakeholder who is affected by a decision and we are the decision maker. That has to be really clear. It is not personal in that context. It cannot be considered to be personal when we are talking about a specific power of the Government in that regard.

I refer to the phrase "we are not responsible for how information is used". If we were to send out a signal to the public that we send information and we are not responsible for how it is used, that would be a really negative message to send. We need to be clear and careful. I have worked with the Minister on other issues and I respect that he is trying to move forward, but let us be very careful because we need to send a signal to the public that we recognise that is not an adequate excuse.

We also need to ensure nothing is done to undermine the important role the independent institutions set up as checks and balances to how politics is done in this State, be it the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement, the Comptroller and Auditor General or the Data Protection Commissioner, play in politics and democracy in Ireland. I will not speak further on this. I simply wanted to respond because the Minister had raised that issue himself.

I welcome the Minister's recognition of the deep importance of public service broadcasting, of what it says to us as a nation and of its importance in how it shapes our shared discussions and narratives. There are wider issues I had hoped to address on public service broadcasting because we need to ensure public service broadcasting represents all the voices of the nation. There have been issues of diversity within public service broadcasting. I refer to diversity in all its forms in terms of ensuring a range of voices from people from different parts of the country, from different economic backgrounds, with different abilities and from different ethnic backgrounds. One of the key areas is in gender.I was working with the National Women's Council of Ireland when we produced the voices of women on air report and I recognise that RTÉ has taken steps forward regarding its presenters and the participation of women in that media. One aspect of that research that struck me, because the figures on direct participation were so stark it is a qualitative aspect that got buried, was that women were often on radio or television to describe what had happened to them and then men came on to explain what had actually happened to them and what the policies were. We still need to dive a little bit deeper, not only around who is brought on but that we are bringing on those who have expertise and analysis and understand their experiences.

We also need to look to the voices of civil society. Often civil society, NGOs or trade unions, are brought in to talk about the experiences of those they work with and yet the experts who tell us about how the economy works, often framed as neutral experts, are also interested parties. Many of those experts are deeply imbedded and working closely with those who have high stakes in the business sector who, for example, are investing in property or the financial advisers to major corporations. We need to look at that expertise and we need a little bit of transparency when persons, such as Mr. Ó Neachtain, are popping up on radio programmes so that we know where they are coming from in that context and bring the strong economic analysis that many in civil society can bring into the mix. That is a side point. I will go straight to my other points now.

In its public service role, it is important that we recognise our investment in public service media and broadcasting. It is not about making this a functional business. In the investment we make in public service broadcasting, the dividend comes out in society, for example, through our orchestras and their role.

Local radio, which was mentioned, is important. Community radio needs more of a focus. In that regard, I am worried by the Minister's proposal that we would seek to increase the time given to advertising on both private and public channels. What we are doing is making the public not the beneficiaries but the target. The public is then the product that is being sold. Besides, we know that when one increases space for that product, the price will go down and the competition will increase. I oppose that proposal.

There are other fora in which I will discuss other aspects of online regulation but in the limited time I have, I want to address an issue which directly affects the Minister, Deputy Naughten, and is related to online advertising. The proportion of advertising in the digital sector is 40%, up from 7%. It is a huge market of almost €500 million. This needs urgent regulation. While I recognise that there are other issues around fake news and abuse online, the key issue, that we have 40% of the advertising market unregulated, cannot stand. That needs immediate action.

In our debate, we talked about the online advertising targeting of young people, for example, whether there are any regulations about what kind of online advertising can reach or be targeted towards young people. Crucially, because it is immediate in relation to political advertising, I absolutely support Deputy James Lawless's Bill. It does not affect constituency clinics. It does not impact on their conduct. We can debate that but I do not believe it does because what it says is that one needs to be transparent about who is placing an advertisement, and that is the key factor. Once there is transparency in political advertising, so be it. Right now, we have a situation where online advertising regarding the referendum is taking place. The Transparent Referendum Initiative has produced information that tells us large amounts of money is being spent anonymously, large numbers of organisations outside Ireland are buying advertising, and money is being spent on misleading and untrue content. A large number of those advertising are hidden, anonymous, not traceable or not registered anywhere. This is directly related and I have a question for the Minister. In the context where that is unregulated right now, should Facebook increase its early roll-out of transparency around who is purchasing advertisements or perhaps not sell advertisements? On those platforms for which RTÉ, the national broadcaster, is responsible, Google advertisements are appearing at present.

This is a final, simple point. It is possible for any website that accepts Google advertisements to determine at present that they do not want to receive political advertisements. Does the Minister believe that RTÉ, RTÉ Junior, TG4 and other public service broadcasters should not accept political advertisements in the period leading up to the referendum at a time when those advertisements are completely unregulated? That is a specific request. It is something that we could do in the interim. I would like to hear the timeline and ask that there would be cross-party input into the committee. I would suggest that differences should be put aside-----