Gerry Horkan (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I was fairly tolerant of everybody when I was in the Chair, including many who went over their time. This is a difficult proposition to support. In December 2014, when I was a councillor in Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown, there was a motion from a particular political party to repeal the eighth amendment. At that point I voted against it. On the very same night we had a debate on the culling of urban foxes. It was quite unusual to see so many people who were not willing to repeal the eighth amendment were relatively okay with the culling of urban foxes. So many people willing to repeal the eighth amendment would not approve the culling of foxes. There was almost a direct inverse correlation and it was a particularly unusual dynamic that we had that night.

We all respect life and we must respect human life in all its guises. Whether we like it or not, each of us started life and went through a pregnancy. We were lucky enough to be born and alive today.I find the proposition of unrestricted access to abortion up to 12 weeks too difficult to support on this occasion. One of the difficulties for me is that at the moment there is constitutional protection for the unborn and if the referendum is passed that constitutional protection is removed. What will happen then is that we will end up with a situation where, as Senator Wilson and others have outlined, legal provision may be inserted. It does not say it will be provided. I accept that the Government may insert something but the constitutional protection is gone and we then have to rely on all Governments in the future to do it.

We have seen some politicians who have spent their entire political career saying that politicians should not be trusted on anything now coming out and saying people should trust politicians. Some of them were in the council with me before they came into these Houses and they spent their entire political career outside these Houses and other buildings of public representatives shouting in on a megaphone, despite the fact that they were elected, saying that people should not trust those inside, but they are now saying people should trust those inside.

If the proposition is one that I am not happy with I will vote against it. I do not doubt that it will probably pass through this House but I do not have to vote for it. I am lucky enough to be here, for as long as I am here, and it is important that if I have the authority and the right to vote against the referendum - Senator McDowell and others have referred to it - that I can say "No". There are probably many in Britain who regret allowing a Brexit referendum and wonder why they did, and regret the decision that was made. If I am not happy with a referendum being put forward I do not believe it is anti-democratic to say that I am not happy. I am only one vote out of 60. I am only one vote out of 218 in the Houses of the Oireachtas generally. I am sure the Bill will pass, but if it does not, it will not only be me that stops it. If the Bill passes, I will not be in a position to support it at the moment but I am pleased we had a respectful debate, one where everybody listened to everybody else and where everybody was willing to hear what everybody else said.

It has been a very measured debate. It is now just over four and a half hours since the debate started. That is probably a record in this sitting of the Seanad for any single debate to have gone on for so long, in particular on Second Stage. It is important that it did. More than half the Members have spoken. I find that I am not in a position to support the Bill on this occasion. The proposition that is outlined to replace the eighth amendment is not something that I feel is sufficient to protect the life of the unborn, which many others have mentioned.

At the same time, I do understand that there are difficulties with the eighth amendment. Perhaps it would be otherwise if a different proposition was put in front of me. I read the report of the committee and I congratulate Senator Noone for all the work she did and the work put in by the 21 members of the committee but, personally, I must stand true to my own values and I am not in a position to support the Bill on this occasion. I regret to say that. I respect the Minister personally. I always have, in all his different guises, including in his current position as Minister for Health. This is not a personal attack on anybody or anyone in this Chamber or in the other House but I am just not comfortable with what is proposed and I will be voting against this referendum Bill and I will be voting "No" in the referendum itself when it is held. I am glad that we have had a measured, sensible debate as far as I can see, and from what I have heard. I am glad that we have had the debate but, unfortunately from the Minister's perspective, I am not in a position to support the Bill on this occasion.