Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank Senators McDowell and others for proposing their amendment and acknowledge the amendment I have co-signed with my colleague, Senator Ruane, and the related amendments in this section. I also acknowledge that good, credible evidence, positions, advice and perspectives have been offered by all sides on this matter. I hold the advice given by groups such as the Irish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, ISPCC, the Children's Rights Alliance and Dr. Geoffrey Shannon in high esteem. I also acknowledge the credible and positive input made by Professor Barry O'Sullivan and Dr. Mary Aiken, who spoke at the committee briefing. These are important perspectives and there is quite a bit of common ground that can be achieved.

Earlier Senator Ruane spoke eloquently about child protection and that is why I support her amendment. I shall first speak to her amendment and then to the other amendments that are part of this group of amendments. The key issues of child protection in the legislation are not simply about the point of entry. Legislators across Europe are facing this challenge now whereby previously there was a great focus on the idea of guarding the portal into spaces in order to see the participants therein. The amendment proposed by Senator McDowell and others in no way seeks to limit access to the Internet. On the idea that the point of access is the key point of regulation, we also need to regulate within the Internet, within specific information service providers and in specific categories such as fora and others. I will not elaborate again on issues Members discussed earlier such as the right to forget. According to amendment No. 9a, "It shall not be lawful for a data controller to process the data of a child for commercial or marketing purposes". Yesterday, Professor Barry O'Sullivan expressed in The Irish Timeshis concerns on the collecting, recording and sharing of a child's home or school address, as well as children's location, date of birth, photographs, likes or dislikes or conversations. I believe that amendment No. 9a would go some way to alleviating the questions on the way data are processed and for what purpose data are processed by the providers. It places a high burden, as is right and proper, on the companies and platforms themselves to ensure this regardless of the moment of consent. As was addressed earlier, when parents believe they are consenting, they may believe they are only consenting for today or tomorrow but in the detail of the terms and conditions, there can be very long-term consequences. I believe very few parents will always read through or even understand the terms and conditions related to consent. There are areas of specific consent, as I have indicated, that have moved forward since the general data protection regulation, GDPR, was put forward such as, for example, consent to the use of one's image and the context for such usage, be it by a private company or public authority.

First, we need to tease out the area of consent and analyse how the consent process takes place but also, as Senator Ruane has proposed in her amendment that I have co-signed, we need not simply to wash our hands of the issue after the point of consent but to ensure there are still standards as to how the data that belong to children are treated and that those standards are properly enforced. Amendment No. 9a stipulates up to the age of 16 and I am open to increasing the age and stipulating up to the age of 18, which would be in line with amendment No. 29 that has just been agreed to here. If there had been clear measures covering the protection of data, people would feel more assured about the point at which the age of digital consent is set. As those measures and additional safeguards are not in place, digital consent currently carries a very high burden. At present, digital consent is far too wide because once one consents to terms and conditions, the constraint is not placed on those terms and conditions or the subsequent action.

I am moved by both arguments. As for the argument on the other side, real and practical concerns have been expressed by many non-governmental organisation, NGOs, who work with vulnerable young people. Let us not forget that people can be mothers at the age of 15. People face very difficult questions on, for example, their sexuality or gender orientation during their teenage years and they may not always have the support of their parents in such situations. Not every household in Ireland will be a safe space in terms of a child's access to the Internet. The ISPCC and other organisations have expressed their concern about the ability of children to access certain sites. I acknowledge that the Bill contains a measure to address this matter. The reference to information society services, in terms of applying an age of digital consent, does not include a reference to preventative or counselling services. Some of the organisations that have spoken about this area, however, have expressed their concern about the fact that preventative or counselling services have not been defined. They fear that cases may be taken against them and it may fall to case law to determine if services are considered to be preventative or counselling services. I believe there is a job of work to be done to make the exemption more robust. I wish to indicate my intention to table a proposal on Report Stage - and am happy to support proposals tabled by other Members - to, for example, establish a list to which sites from anywhere in Europe wishing to be considered as safe sites for preventive and counselling services can apply. Perhaps the list might be set with the assistance of the Data Protection Commissioner and appropriate guidance from the Ministers for Justice and Equality and Children and Youth Affairs. The measure would address some of the concerns of many people in civil society that the services they offer, which are being accessed by young people who often are highly vulnerable, are not potentially in danger of being inadvertently in breach or considered in breach or of having a complaint made against them to suggest they are in breach. Even the process of a complaint could be highly detrimental to what are often small organisations or NGOs. There is room to make the exemptions more robust and clear in that regard.Ideally, I would like the exemptions to mention education also to recognise children as education and creative actors. However, I acknowledge that may not be possible. I would like the Minister to indicate that. If we were to raise the age to 16, making the exemption on preventative or counselling services clear and watertight would be become even more important. As I said, the proposal I put forward here on strengthening our protections and the amendment proposed by Senator Ruane and me on the processing of children's data are extremely important, in particular in the context of a lower digital age of consent. An amendment to strengthen or clarify the definition of "preventative and counselling services" is also important, in particular in the case of a higher age of consent.

The question of the digital age of consent is not the central issue. Currently, I am somewhat more persuaded towards an older age point and I reserve the right on Report Stage to look at it further. For example, 15 years is an age which could be useful as children are in transition year programmes which could be paired with the vital matters of digital education and awareness and the process of making it clear to children how and why they engage with the Internet and ensuring they are supported in doing so. However, that is a money amendment and not something we can put forward, albeit it is within the scope of the Minister to do so. I reserve the right to look at that age of 15 albeit not every school in Ireland has a transition year programme. Many do, however. While other issues have come in, they are the vital issues on either side that affect the question of the digital age of consent. I ask the Minister to address them. Certainly, I am happy to co-sponsor amendment No. 9a and I urge the House to support it. It is a practical proposal to support and give assurance to those on all sides of the debate.