Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I thank all Senators for their contributions, which were interesting and in some cases, challenging, such as Senator Grace O'Sullivan's, while others were very stimulating indeed and in one or two cases were totally irrelevant. That is fair enough. That is par for the course.

Those speakers who are critical of our vision and the fact that we have not met our targets are correct. There is no point whatsoever in pretending that we are up to speed on the environment or on emissions. It is something which I wish to see accelerated fast. I do not think it is a matter on which we can hold our head very high at the high tables of Europe when we constantly have to admit that we have missed those targets. Some of them were spelled out by Senator Grace O'Sullivan. Quite honestly, at the time they were over-ambitious. They were done at a time of great prosperity and pride and we are resetting them now with a certain realism. I accept that the transport sector is behind and that there is a great deal of scope for improvement in the area for which I have responsibility. There is obviously a great deal of scope in agriculture as well. I accept completely the need to meet those emissions targets and the consequences of missing them continually or relegating the environment, emissions and pollution to economic demands is something we simply cannot continue forever.

Ambition is one thing and achieving it is another. I fully understand the ideological commitment to a much cleaner environment, which I share. The practical measures which can be taken are inevitably very laudable but, inevitably, they are incredibly expensive as well. When we hear about those great schemes to which we all aspire the cost of them is sometimes utterly and totally prohibitive unless one is prepared to say exactly where one is going to raise the €3 billion or €4 billion that one is going to need for the metro, DART underground and other such schemes which would be good for transport and also good for the environment. We have got to accept a gradual but responsible approach which does not leave the economy on a downward spiral. That is the great contradiction which we face. Senator O'Mahony referred to the Trumpesque outlook which is something we do not accept for a moment. It is also very difficult to aspire to any immediate achievement.

I was in Copenhagen the other day and I was very struck by something very different, not by the fact that there were bicycles everywhere, and not by the structures which are there which are much more environmentally friendly and the progressive policies which we have heard about today, but by the fact that people think environmentally there, that people are proud of it. I will not mention names but many of the people I met there were Irish and the interesting thing them about them was that they bought into the environmental narrative. They were very keen to convince me quickly of the merits of what was happening there. They had lived there for a certain period. They told me what had happened there and asked me why I did not do this, that and the other. Denmark started on its approach quite a long time ago. It has been an environmentally convinced country and has been practising that approach for 20 or 30 years. What people were trying to say is that such an approach works and they offered a good counter to the argument that it is too expensive. It is something that is long term and we are undoubtedly a long way behind. We have structures, agriculture, a network of roads and all sorts of legacy issues which make it difficult for us but it does not mean that we should not aspire to do that. We have had a bit of a wake-up call because of the very stark fact that we missed our targets so badly and that we hear about it so often. We are at the bottom of so many tables in Europe that perhaps we have to adjust to this rather more quickly than we had expected but that is because of our relative neglect in the past.

I will address some of the specific issues raised by Senators. Senator Murnane O'Connor talked about the number of electric vehicles on the road being too low. We agree with that. We are aggressively thinking of incentives. We have set some very tough targets for ourselves because we have done so abysmally in the past. I cannot remember what the figures are but the current number of electric vehicles is approximately 2,000. Senators Grace O'Sullivan and Kevin Humphreys probably know. I think we aspired to have 270,000 by now, something quite extraordinary, yet it is only 2,000 at this stage which is absolutely lamentable. The incentives, which many speakers addressed, including tolls and ensuring taxis are electric are being examined. If they look as if they make sense we will have to introduce such measures. I know there are real difficulties with making exceptions for vehicles in bus lanes because it is difficult to know where to draw the line as all sorts of other vehicles are seeking such a derogation, for example, disabled people and many others who perhaps have an equally worthy case. We must ensure that we are on the right lines and have made giant leaps by 2020 and 2025. We accept that and we are looking at that. We are committed to implementing those incentives to which Senators aspire.

Reference was made to a strong regional transport network. That has come up in many contributions. Senator Mulherin also mentioned it. There is a bit of a problem, which is a slight diversion back to the emissions argument, in that there is a concentration of transport in Dublin and the money we constantly spend on big projects is all in Dublin but that is where the traffic problems are.That is mainly why we do it but it is necessary to combine the national planning framework and other aspects of the effort to be environmentally friendly.

Senator O'Mahony addressed the issue of greenhouse gas emissions and he put his finger on the kernel of the problem, which is that recovery and emissions tend to come together. That is the problem that we have. The moment there is economic recovery, the problem of keeping emissions down arises. The Senator mentioned rural transport. There is a problem to be addressed with rural transport, which I am addressing. It has been a matter of great concern in this House and the other House, albeit perhaps under another heading. I have had two significant meetings with rural transport interests, one of which took place last Monday. This is important to the preservation of rural society in order that it is not destroyed or damaged by other legislation. However, those interests must recognise that if we increase rural transport, they must make sure that we do not significantly increase emissions at the same time. They accept that as well. I accept the Senator's point about free tolling and taxi lanes. Technology is probably the key to the future.

Senator O'Mahony correctly observed that we are on the cusp of more widespread take-up of electric vehicles, EVs. Costs are falling and I believe there will be and must be a giant step towards electric vehicles. We are setting realistic targets, and I believe that the incentives we provide will ensure that in the mid-2020s we make an enormous change in that regard. By 2030 the targets, which are ambitious, will have to be met, otherwise we will have to pay an enormous price. The Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment, Deputy Naughten, is working on a plan to increase availability of charge points, to which the Senator referred. He is due to deliver that fairly soon.

Senator Humphreys is quite right about buses. We do need to make our buses more climate-friendly, and we have set targets on that. I have allocated money to the green public transport fund to facilitate pilot projects to prove that the fuels which were referred to will work in Ireland. The Bus Connects investment, which I launched a few months ago and which is due to develop and put buses on the streets within 18 months, is also committed to upgrading our bus fleet to low-carbon buses. By 2023, we will have converted 500 buses to low-emission vehicles. It is worth recalling that public transport is only responsible for about 4.6% of emissions. However, it is symbolically important that we as a State, and I as a Minister, reduce them, to show an example to everybody else, in order that people cannot point the finger at us and ask if we do not do it, why they should. We are absolutely determined to do that. We have budgeted for that in the new capital plan, and I reiterate that by 2023, there should be 500 buses low-emission buses.

Senator Humphreys also referred to cycling and walking. We have committed a figure in the new capital plan which is pretty dramatic. Imagine if Senator Humphreys was in my shoes, which God forbid he ever will be again. He knows I do not mean that. I would be delighted if he was. Our ambitions in this sphere are directed towards a smart transport policy, a healthy existence and low emissions. We have committed €108 million in the next three years, which is a substantial amount, to cycling and walking. That is a massive increase which either has not been noticed or has deliberately not been acknowledged. The cycling lobby is very strong. It is always making worthy and sensible suggestions and is highly vocal. However, it appears not to have responded terribly enthusiastically to what I regard as a significant new commitment to cycling and walking, not just in Dublin but elsewhere too. That should be acknowledged. It is a commitment we intend to keep and which is a fairly big step forward. It is not just a gesture to the direction in which Denmark and other countries have gone. It is a significant and ambitious figure, which I hope we will be able to increase in the years to come.

The question of petrol versus diesel is a constant problem, partly because of the political difficulties. Let us be honest about it, there is a strong lobby against the conversion. However, we will move gradually towards it, come hell or high water. Furthermore, it is something which will move naturally when we convert to electric vehicles.

The use of taxes on fuel to address climate change was raised. Demand management questions are a complex area. Issues around competitiveness for freight and social cohesion in rural areas must be given due attention. That is absolutely compelling. Car use is relatively inelastic to increases in fuel price in the short term. We must, however, find ways to encourage car buyers to move away from diesel in the future. That is something to which I have asked my Department to give strong consideration. I acknowledge it is difficult, there are perfectly reasonable arguments on either side and there are peculiar difficulties which must be acknowledged.

Senator Mulherin talked about public transport, closing down the train routes to the west, the vision for a rail corridor and about the western railway corridor, WRC. There constantly are scare stories in this regard. I have not identified and nor have I sought any particular route for closure. Indeed, the programme for Government states quite specifically that nothing should be done to impede the western rail corridor. There was a rail review, of which Members will be aware, which addressed the subject of some railways being less unprofitable than others. There are absolutely no plans to privatise them of which I am aware and as a Minister, I probably would be aware of them. Furthermore, any developments of this sort must be made in conjunction with the national spatial strategy. It would be absolutely mad to move on a transport link as fundamental as a railway independently of the national spatial strategy. They will have to be considered together, not in any other way, and that is what I intend to do.I do think it is somewhat unfair to say the west is completely neglected because I opened the Gort-Tuam motorway a few days ago. That was extraordinarily expensive. It involved an enormous sum of public money, over €500 million. That is a recognition of the need to spend money on transport in the west. That sort of balance should be drawn when we are talking about the difficulties of rural Ireland, which I fully acknowledge, but it is not all one way. It is not always the case that rural Ireland pulls the short straw. If there are other areas that are unfairly treated the Senator should please say so. I am very conscious of it. I hear about it every day. I can hardly move without people saying rural Ireland is neglected in a certain sense. I agree there are special circumstances in which rural Ireland deserves special treatment and I think it is getting that special treatment.

I hope I have addressed most of the issues raised. I have a note on aviation emissions but by their nature they must be addressed globally. Ireland is working hard within the International Civil Aviation Organisation, ICAO, to establish the mechanisms by which worldwide aviation emissions will be capped at 2020 levels and then progressively reduced.

On the runway at Dublin Airport, whereas I sympathise with much of what Senator Grace O'Sullivan had to say, the Government is totally and utterly committed to it. I have met large groups of people who will be affected by it and we will do absolutely everything we can to assist them in the difficulties in which they find themselves. I am sure no other Minister has received as many delegations as I have from people around the airport. That is within the utter commitment that the economy of the country requires a runway of that sort. It will be subject to the usual environmental impact statements and everything like that but the idea that we could disadvantage ourselves economically in a way that would prohibit or deter people from coming to the country would be impossible for me to contemplate as someone who has to promote the tourism industry. It is always a matter of balance. Nobody is more sympathetic than I to the difficulties of those who might be environmentally disadvantaged by that particular runway but in the greater national interest we have to find a way to introduce it.