John Paul Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I will never forget it, that is why I wanted to remind the Seanad that councillors will be treated the same. I am happy to be able to say that secretarial support, on the basis that Oireachtas Members can vouch it, will apply under this scheme. It will not have to be registered agency secretaries but will apply to people who have a PPS number and when details of work that has been carried out are provided. It works in the same was as the PRA arrangement for Members of the Oireachtas.

Rent for offices, rates on offices and utility costs for those offices will be vouched expenses in the new regime. The days of unvouched expenses for anyone in public life or Civil Service do not exist any more. They should not exist any more. Equally, the vouched system must reflect the expenses that people incur in order to do their job. I believe Senator Mark Daly said last week that ink was not covered. I do not know where he read that, but I can assure this House that all stationery items are fully covered. I have been waiting for the opportunity to point it out to him.

I am investigating a further matter at the moment. I am personally very amenable to this idea, but we need clarification on it. It is the inclusion of child care costs incurred by councillors when they are attending council meetings. Many councillors are also carers. Having done two Seanad elections, during which I met every councillor in the country, I was struck by the number of councillors who were caring for someone, whether it was a child, a sibling or a parent. The costs that they incur from having someone in their home to do the caring while they are out doing council work should be a vouched expense. We are investigating if that can happen and if there might be knock-on effects in other areas.

On the issue of revised annual travel rates, the Revenue Commissioners have previously ruled that travel rates that are higher than the prevailing Civil Service travel rates set by the Minister of Finance and Public Expenditure and Reform can incur a tax liability unless the person claiming higher travel rates can demonstrate on a vouched basis that it is to offset actual costs incurred. I am afraid I do not have more positive news on the travel rates front.

On the issue of linking councillors to the Civil Service, into the future - by which I mean the turn of the year - I will be establishing a local authority members remuneration reform group to review pay and supports provided by councillors with the intention of streamlining, modernising and improving these supports. This group will operate on a cross-departmental basis as appropriate and will include representation from councillors and local authority management. Some Senators mentioned these groups in their contributions. The group will report ahead of the next local elections in 2019. The intention is that the group will commence early in 2018 and report at the end of the year. That will happen if I get my way on the issue. The linking of councillors' remuneration to an appropriate grade in the Civil Service is long overdue. It will ensure that people who want to stand and have something to offer in local government should not be put out of pocket or disadvantaged by their decision to run. It should not be left to the wealthy class. I do not come from that background myself.

I did not refer to the work that councillors do last week because I had a limited time to speak. Running for the Seanad is actually an uplifting experience in which one meets so many people in their own communities and sees different places in the country. I remember having a mini breakdown around north Donegal during my second Seanad election, when I was sure I was not going to get re-elected. One meets so many people who are active in their communities. The political badge they wear is a small part of their life. Their real drive comes from doing their bit for their own community, whether that community is in Donegal or the north side of Dublin city or anywhere else. For a young man out of college with no background in politics it was a real eye-opener as to how the country works and to how real politics on the ground operates for communities. If I get the time I will deliver a link between councillors' remuneration and the Civil Service so that this is not a matter that will come up for a Minister in the future.

I am disappointed with some of the reaction to the changes that have been announced. The figures are small, and everyone acknowledges that. However, in my first meeting with the representative groups of councillors I was asked about increasing expenses and pay, and although it is modest it has happened within the first six months. Many of my predecessors talked about it for years. I know that the job is not even half done. The job is to ensure that we have a system of paying local authority representatives that is fair to the taxpayer and the ratepayer of their local authorities, but also ensures that the best people, the people that we want in local government, are in a financial position to stand for election at the next local elections in 2019 and into the future.