David Norris (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I would like to recognise the presence in the Gallery of the families of people who have been murdered. It is, for them, a very shocking thing and there is no remission whatever from the sentence under which they must live. Murder is a very shocking occurrence. It revolts every decent person in society. I have had a nightmare once or twice in which I accidentally killed someone and tried to hide the person's body in a black plastic bag. I remember the feeling of utter shock at the idea of taking somebody else's life.

I also recall other situations. I remember very well the case of Declan Flynn, who I knew but not terribly well. He was a young gay man who was murdered in Fairview Park and the judge just let the people off, with no penalty whatever imposed. The case sparked a revolt among the people of Ireland and very substantial marches took place.

This is a very important Bill. It should be allowed to proceed to Committee Stage. It is only concerned with first degree murder and people who are convicted of that offence. We have mandatory life sentences for murder but they are never served. According to the figures supplied to me by Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell, in the 1970s and 1980s the average term served by convicted murderers was seven and a half years. That is astonishing when we think of comparable sentences for other offences. It is very shocking. The position has changed, however, and the average time that a person convicted of murder serves in this country now is 17 years. However, he or she is eligible to come before a parole board after a mere seven years. A parole board is made up of political appointees, civil servants and so on.I just do not think this is important. This Bill will give the judge much more flexibility and allow him or her to impose the appropriate sentence. There will be a minimal custodial period to decided upon, up or down, by the court.

Ireland is full of maximum sentences for offences that are never met. They are on the Statute Book but they never come into operation. Society and murder families want sentences that reflect our absolute horror and revulsion at the crime of murder because as it stands a life sentence for murder does not mean life. The court needs to have a more defined and greater role in sentencing rather than a blanket mandatory minimum sentence. We need greater certainty for sentencing for the offence of murder and prison sentences that are of sufficient length to deter criminal activity and express society's horror at the taking of a human life.

This Bill will introduce a regime similar to the one that already exists in the United Kingdom. This is one model where we can follow the example of the United Kingdom to our advantage. Under the Bill, discretion would still be available but we would be operating from a set of tariffs and only with transparent and predetermined criteria. Minimum tariffs and sentences are critical if we are to achieve justice for the victims' families and the wider community.

Another situation to be addressed is the question of consecutive, as opposed to concurrent, sentences. There is a tendency now to grant concurrent sentences in a case of the murder of more than one person. A situation that has not been referred to in the debate so far arises where somebody who has committed multiple murders is tried on only one charge. That leaves the families of the other victims dangling. There is no closure for them at all. I have had a brief conversation with the families in the Gallery whose grief I greatly respect. They made the point that there is no closure anyway for any of them. There is never closure. I am repeating something that has been said on many occasions - it is a life sentence for those who are left behind. The practice of giving concurrent sentences should be re-examined. There may be a case for it in certain situations but we need to be very careful. If two lives have been taken, surely sentencing should reflect this.

If this Bill goes through, and I very much hope it does, judges will be able to exercise discretion for the first time when it comes to murder. It is a very tragic and complex situation, one which this House is wise to take under consideration, and I am grateful to Senator Marie Louise O'Donnell for bringing this important matter to the attention of Seanad Éireann. I appeal to the Government not to vote this Bill down, but to allow it go to Committee Stage for further consideration. If there are defects in the Bill, it can be amended. The Gallery is full of the relatives of people who have been murdered. This is a situation that Seanad Éireann must take into account.