Paddy Burke (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Phelan, to the House and I congratulate him and thank him for making a move forward on expenses for councillors. He stated that he would do it and he has done so. While it is a small move, it is a move in the right direction.

It is nearly 20 years since I was a member of a local authority but I am a bit mixed up when I read the 20-page regulations that confirm how much extra a councillor gets, whether in travelling expenses, an increase in pay or an increase in an allowance. I was certain in my opinion in certain circumstances but I am much more mystified when I listen to Senator Craughwell. I was of the belief that I was familiar with some of the issues but, certainly, Senator Craughwell is not familiar with the full facts either. The Minister of State might outline how much councillors get and how their expenses are broken down. They get a representational payment for expenses on the same basis as we in the Seanad do. Senator Craughwell stated that they did not.

A councillor's pay was linked to a Senator's salary, a Senator's salary was linked to a TD's salary and a TD's salary was linked to a certain grade in the Civil Service. When the late Deputy Brian Lenihan was Minister for Finance, that link with the Civil Service was broken but I always was of the belief that the Seanad was tied to the Dáil and councillors' salaries was tied to those of Senators. This extra €1,000 that the Minister of State is giving them seems to be a special payment. Is that because it would break the link to a Senator's salary?