Michelle Mulherin (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I fully support the introduction of the Bill as a reflection of one of our public health policy objectives. As a Government, we need to move forward as unanimously as we can to address issues like binge drinking and alcohol addiction in this country. We have to be courageous as we try to change the way things operate at the moment. When we attempt to change the status quo, there is fallout. We cannot throw logic or reason out when we are taking measures and steps. We all want to reduce the level of alcohol abuse in this country. It has to be reasonable, proportionate and based on evidence. We have to keep going back to that.

Like Senator Higgins, I think the evidence with regard to minimum unit pricing is compelling. It is fair to say that the advent of binge drinking was linked to the arrival of cheap or below-cost alcohol. It seems that the abolition of the groceries order some time ago allowed multiple retailers that could afford to do so to sell alcohol at a price below its actual cost as a loss leader to get people in. We know that this practice involved the retailers reclaiming from the State the VAT on the alcohol they induced people to come in and buy. It was compelling to learn that most of those who buy cheap alcohol engage in binge drinking. International evidence shows that there is a correlation between alcohol becoming more expensive and a reduction in drinking. This is a very important element of this legislation. It arises from the most compelling evidence we have seen. Many of the other proposals in this Bill seem to involve taking steps in the hope that they will achieve something rather than in light of evidence that they will do so.

I suppose we have to be honest about minimum unit pricing as it has been set out. This is very critical. There is a great deal of confusion among members of the general public. Everybody thinks we should do something about alcohol, but most people do not understand this Bill. We do not know when this is going to come in. I understand the argument of colleagues from Border counties who have pointed out that the introduction of minimum unit pricing in this jurisdiction in the absence of a similar measure in Northern Ireland will lead to changes in people's shopping practices. At a time of concern about Brexit, this will cause even more problems in Border counties and elsewhere.

Why are we not seeking to reintroduce a ban on below-cost selling? The multiple retailers are engaging in this activity. Small and medium-sized retailers that could never afford to do this have the most issues with it. The evidence is there. It behoves us to achieve what we want to achieve, namely, to try to tackle binge drinking. This is the most straightforward argument. There is no dissent here in respect of it. I cannot get my head around why we cannot take this step.

As already stated, we have to be courageous. This needs to be borne in mind as we proceed with our debate. We have introduced various admirable anti-smoking measures, including the smoking ban. There is no doubt that this has changed mindsets among those of us who do not smoke and those who do. The end result we desire in the case of cigarettes is that nobody would ever smoke. I do not anybody would make the same argument in the case of alcohol. Maybe some people would. We are not suggesting that nobody will drink.

We have to navigate a road that provides assistance and support, pulls people away from addiction, reveals weaknesses in the system and tackles binge drinking. We have to deal with the businesses that sell alcohol and the industry that manufactures it. All of these efforts are part of the solution and not part of the problem. Everyone must be spoken to. I was watching this debate on the monitor before I came to the Chamber. Concern has been expressed about engagement with all stakeholders. The Government must participate in such engagement when it is formulating its policies. I know we will discuss section 20 later. I welcome the Minister's commitment to engage with people who will be affected by the Bill. The people to whom I refer are as genuine as those who are trying to solve this problem. They want to be part of a solution. I hope that does not sound somewhat cryptic.

This is a complex issue. Nobody can say that any measure we introduce right now will solve this problem. If we all agreed to ban alcohol immediately, it would not solve the problem because people would find a way to drink. We have to apply a high degree of common sense here. We should look at arguments from all sides and listen to health professionals and market researchers. We should apply some common sense to see how we can coexist and achieve the very worthwhile objectives of this legislation.