Trevor Ó Clochartaigh (Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

Cuirim céad fáilte roimh an Aire agus déanaim comhghairdeachas léi as a ceapachán agus cuirim fáilte roimh na haíonna sa Ghailearaí inniu.

I am a member of the Joint Committee on Education and Skills. I have no problem with this issue being discussed in the Seanad and coming off the fence, as I wish Fianna Fáil would, because the overwhelming body of evidence that has been presented to the committee is totally against the income contingent loan model. There have been very few compelling arguments to support the other side. In the context of the third level education sector, in recent years there have been cuts to non-adjacent grants and post-grad grants, increases in registration fees and cuts to young people's social welfare payments. That drove tens of thousands of young people out of third level, out of the country and to places such as Canada, Australia and so on. That created a class divide because people with money in their back pockets were able to continue to go to third level. Those people will get degrees and be able to afford to do a post grad and will be more qualified when applying for jobs in the civil service and so on. We are creating a divide and one has been created. That is one of the arguments in favour of free third level education.

I have likened the creation of the income contingent loan scheme to an Irish Water model for third level. The cost of setting it up has not been clarified and the State would be pumping money into a model which has been seen to fail internationally. We should not put money into such a scheme.

A report of the Committee of Public Accounts has considered how money is spent at third level institutions. NUI Galway is sitting on a war chest of over €50 million while at the same time it comes in with one arm longer than the other seeking funding for students in colleges where labs do not have the proper equipment and supplies needed to teach students or are over crowded and so on. We should examine how money is spent in third level. There needs to be far more transparency in terms of fees paid to staff at high levels in the colleges. When cases such as the NUI Galway gender equality case arise there is no shortage of money to fight those legal battles, nor when it comes to hiring consultants. However, in terms of the conditions for university staff, many lecturers and teachers at lower levels are on contracts of indefinite duration, do not know when their contracts will end or whether they will be continued and are already struggling for money. There has been massive outsourcing of staff within universities as well and people on very poor pay and conditions are being employed as cleaners and so on.

Young people should not come out of college with a millstone around their neck because of the income contingent loan model. In relation to credit ratings, if a student graduates with a loan of €50,000 to be repaid and he or she wants get on the property ladder and take out a mortgage, buy a car or undertake further education or professional training of any sort and they go and look for a loan, the first thing the bank will do is ask him or her what his or her credit rating is and whether he or she has any other bills. The student will not be able to take out those extra loans etc. That will be a huge disadvantage unless he or she has someone who can offer financial support and if he or she has that disposable income.

Issues in respect of people taking the wrong courses at third level need to be addressed. Part of that reason for those issues has been the cut to guidance counsellors at second level. A full complement of guidance counsellors at second level is needed to put people into the right course in order that they stick with it.

Several third level institutions are operating subsidiary companies, some of which provide services like online training and so on. There needs to be an examination of how those companies are being run because they are bringing in a significant amount of money and many are operating under charitable status, which is questionable.

The Fianna Fáil amendment to the Bill is cynical. It is about time Fianna Fáil got off the fence. I am confused by its Jekyll and Hyde approach to this model. Its members need to tell us whether or not they are in favour of income contingent loans and stop trying to hide behind an amendment that is going to get them off the hook.

It is condescending and sanctimonious of Senator Mullen to say that Sinn Féin is trying to steal the votes of certain people in the third level sector. Anybody I have met from the third level sector is well able to make up his or her own mind about who he or she wants to support politically.I am sure they will do that. We are very much in favour of this motion. I hope that Fianna Fáil and the Government will withdraw their amendments.