Ivana Bacik (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister, Deputy Zappone, and thank her for coming to the House. I welcome the opportunity to debate this important report and I thank the Leader for giving us the opportunity to do so at such short notice. Like others, I acknowledge the tremendous work of Dr. Geoffrey Shannon in carrying out this audit. I acknowledge also that what prompted it was, of course, the report of the then Ombudsman for Children, Emily Logan, in 2014. She had been asked to inquire into the exercise by the Garda of the section 12 power in respect of a number of children in Roma families, a case which, as we are all aware, gave rise to a huge outcry.

The ombudsman's report in 2014 called for an independent audit of the exercise by the Garda of the section 12 power. One of the points Dr. Shannon makes in his report is that no study into the use of section 12, the frequency with which it is employed and the nature of the cases in which it arises had ever been carried out in this jurisdiction, and section 12 had been in place for a long time, given it is a section of the Child Care Act 1991. The audit itself is hugely important in adding to our level of information and knowledge about how section 12 is exercised. The ombudsman also recommended further research, which Dr. Shannon said is beyond the scope of his report. Will the Minister explain whether it is envisaged that the further research sought by Emily Logan will be carried out, in particular where she asked for a comparison of the number of successful applications for emergency care orders flowing from section 12 removals and a comprehensive examination of the length of time children were deprived of their family environment where section 12 had been exercised? That further research would also be extremely useful in giving us a more comprehensive picture of the exercise of powers by An Garda Síochána.

We are all well aware of the section 12 power. A high threshold is required by gardaí before they may exercise their power of removing a child to safety, and that is where they consider there to be an immediate and serious risk to the health or welfare of a child in a situation where it would not be sufficient to await the application for the making of an emergency care order. It is a high threshold. Dr. Shannon acknowledges the work of gardaí and notes they are first responders. As others have commented, he is in general very positive about the exercise by front-line gardaí of their section 12 powers.He says that removal in all of the instances he reviewed was well within the subjective risk threshold under section 12 and that there was no evidence of an over-zealous use of section 12 powers by An Garda Síochána. That must be acknowledged. I should declare my own interest in this, having worked for some years in child protection cases in Dolphin House, a setting which was rightly criticised by Senator Ardagh in our earlier debate on domestic violence. The Minister for Justice and Equality in response pointed out that there is a move planned to a building in Hammond Lane. I understand a building has been purchased and work is beginning on a new child protection court complex. Dolphin House is entirely inadequate. Anyone who has ever had the occasion to go in there, including lawyers, social workers, gardaí and the individuals before the courts, will be aware it is a difficult working environment for people dealing with such highly traumatic cases in terms of taking instructions in crowded corridors and inadequate consultation rooms. That also must be acknowledged. There are resources that need to be spent on that very physical infrastructure too. All of those acknowledgements must be made.

Another key issue, based on my own experience and on what social workers have told me in the years I was involved in this area, is the lack of intervention in situations where social workers and gardaí were aware of abuse. Senator Black illustrated this very eloquently. There have been situations where the Garda felt the threshold was not sufficient for a section 12 or section 13 order, or there were not enough resources to enable social workers to investigate fully. These issues and concerns around the legal entitlement to intervene, given the very strong protections for the family under Article 41, have provided a context where we have seen children being abused in private and family settings and the State failing in its duty to protect children by failing to intervene. That is an important point. Of course, it is vital that we look at how section 12 powers are exercised and that we ensure there is no abuse by gardaí in their powers to intervene but we must also be conscious that the State has been criticised in the past, and rightly so, for failures to intervene and failures to remove children to safety. It is important to say that.

I will speak briefly to four points that jumped out to me from Dr. Shannon's report. The first point is the difficulties with data and flaws in the PULSE system, which was also mentioned by other speakers. Dr. Shannon noted he could not be sure that he had access to full data from PULSE. He also conducted qualitative interviews and focus groups in an effort to address those problems. Dr. Shannon has made recommendations on the need for greater consistency in reporting of allegations of sex abuse and, in particular, consistency in reporting section 12 removals, in respect of which he points out the numbers annually are not great and that it should be possible to enable clear and coherent reporting through the PULSE system of the exercise of section 12 powers. That is very important. Dr. Shannon also calls in his final recommendation No. 17 for a report by the Garda in a year's time on the recommendations of the audit and whether they have been implemented. As part of that, in recommendation No. 17, he also says that the Garda should publish statistics on an annual basis on the invocation of section 12 in the preceding year and report on any challenges or difficulties experienced in the exercise of this power. This, again, would greatly add to our knowledge. It is an important recommendation to address.

The second point, also picked up on by many other speakers, is the issue of training, which the Minister also spoke about in her opening statement. Dr. Shannon has very concerning findings about the lack of formal training of new Garda recruits in child protection, the emphasis being on-the-job training. This is an issue that was also highlighted in other reports. The Garda Inspectorate made similar criticisms of the PULSE system and of lack of formal training within the Garda Síochána. We know then that not only in regard to child protection and section 12 but more generally we need to ensure greater emphasis on training, in particular training on ethno-diversity and how to deal with children from different and diverse backgrounds. Concern was expressed by Dr. Shannon that there is no training or strategic policy direction from the Garda Síochána in this regard. I note the Minister addressed that issue in her opening statement but perhaps she would comment specifically on training on ethno-diversity. There is a very worrying report in today's The Irish Timeswhich focuses on poor garda training. It concerns a failure in the State system of child protection in the case of a child who was interviewed extensively by the Garda about allegations she had made of child sex abuse within her home, those interviews having been carried out in a way that the District Court has described as abusive and relentless. The garda involved in the interviewing process is severely criticised, as is the lack of interagency co-ordination and the very troubling outcome, whereby seven men who had been identified by the child will not be prosecuted because of the flaws in the interviewing process of the child. This is very clear evidence of the difficulties around training.

The third point is on interagency co-operation, which the Minister also addressed. She made the point that this has improved since 2015. Dr. Shannon's audit is in respect of the period up to 2015. I am glad to hear that interagency co-operation has improved but there is still much comment in regard to difficulties with Tusla, in particular, and around the lack of co-ordination between agencies. This is a key issue that needs to be addressed. There are some very damning findings by Dr. Shannon in this regard, including that there continually are poor and limited levels of interagency co-operation between the Garda Síochána, Tusla and the broader child protection framework. That is a very stark finding.

The fourth point is out-of-hours services and the lack of availability of a 24-hour social work service for children at risk. The report references the farming out of children to private agencies, one of which is named. Dr. Shannon states that he is very concerned about the lack of co-ordination, supervision and monitoring of the contracting out of powers and responsibilities to external and private bodies. The Minister has referenced the need to address these issues. Senator Boyhan made the sensible suggestion that we might assist and support her in assessing how these recommendations are being implemented. Dr. Shannon has called for a report from An Garda Síochána in one year but as suggested by Senator Boyhan, it would be helpful if were to revisit this issue in this House with the Minister, with her permission, in a shorter timeframe.