Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Labour) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister of State for his reply. I congratulate my colleague, Senator Ivana Bacik, on the work she has done on this issue and her campaigning for many years to raise issues of gender inequality in many spheres. In fact, we had a discussion on this issue only last night in respect of broadcasting. As somebody whose own mother was forced to leave her employment when she got married in the late 1960s and as somebody who taught in an all-girls school, it is remarkable that we have moved a long way in such a period. Often, however, when talk turns to issues of gender equality, there can be a little disinterest and an assumption that everything is okay in this country. This is aside from issues associated with the health sphere, on which I know we will touch again, and the constitutional impediments affecting women's health. In the work sphere, however, it can be assumed that all is well, but that is certainly not the case.

When my party was most recently in government, we sought to address this matter in a number of ways. One of the issues we tackled, in respect of which Ms Kathleen Lynch was very forthright, was that of having gender equality requirements for State boards, with a minimum percentage of female participation. It was not a question of a general statistic but one across all types of board. It was not good enough to have 90% male representation on financial boards and 90% female participation on child care-type boards; there had to be a gender balance on all boards. In Germany the authorities have legislated for gender equality on commercial and state boards. Perhaps we might look for this in the future.

Just as Senator Ivana Bacik has done in this Bill, it is important to start with the carrot and work with employers and unions to ensure all jof these measures can be addressed properly. When we were in government, we were trying to ensure a legislative basis for the protection of workers' rights in the low-pay sector. Women are disproportionately affected in this and other vulnerable sectors. It is they who work in these areas. When we were defending the joint labour committee and the employment regulation order system and establishing the Low Pay Commission and increasing the minimum wage, we noted that a disproportionate number of women worked in the affected sectors. That is why the conversation we had, the measures implemented and the concept of having decency underpin the economy were so important. We need, however, to go further constantly and work harder.

We still have a very gender-based education system. Whenever I talk about gender inequality, I talk about this issue. It is one we really need to grasp. At primary and secondary levels in many parts of the country - it may be more of an urban than a rural phenomenon - we are still quite comfortable with gender-based schooling. We separate children on the basis of gender, even at the age of four years. I acknowledge that there probably has not been sanction for a single-gender school since the 1980s, but we still need to have a national conversation about this issue. While we are happy to talk about gender equality in adulthood, we are not necessarily as happy to discuss what is blatantly and glaringly obvious to many in many communities, namely, the separation of children on the basis of gender, particularly at primary level.Now we have to have a national conversation about this. While we are happy to talk about gender equality in adulthood, we are not necessarily as happy to discuss what is blatantly obvious to many people in many communities, that is, why we are separating children, particularly at primary level. At second level that conversation can be more difficult. People point to supposedly reputable surveys about the performance level of boys versus girls at second level, research that has been largely discredited. One would wonder why we have such a gender obsession when it comes to the Irish education system, which inevitably leads to gender stereotyping and to a certain type of gender-related subject choices that has a knock-on effect on the workplace.

I understand the Minister has to leave but I thank him for his attention. I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Kehoe, to the House. All these issues are interrelated and while we cannot grasp them all at once, we need a huge amount of buy-in across many Departments and sectors in order to really hammer this home. I have mentioned vulnerable work and the education sector. When we were in government, we organised a conference around the issue of gender equality in the workplace and even at that conference there were those male executives who were still scratching their heads and wondering what the big deal was. It was not something that they actually considered a real issue. It is, however, and if we are going to address it, as we are trying to do with this Bill, it is important to be as inclusive and as non-accusatory as possible in the early stages. We need to use a collaborative approach, encouraging rather than sanctioning. I suggest to the Minister that if there comes a stage where companies are not playing ball or not seen to be embracing this new initiative, he may have to use the stick.

The workplace is so important to somebody's identity and when I was a Minister of State we dealt with the comprehensive employment strategy for people with disabilities and we tried to ensure that workplaces were LGBT-friendly. What eventually happened was that the corporate world discovered that the productivity of workers would be better if they had a more equality-based outlook when it came to dealing with their employees. Surprise, surprise, there actually is a cold, capitalist argument for equality. Senator Bacik and I would never have assumed that would be the case but we have learned many things along the way. When dealing with corporations, the business sector, business leaders and employers, there is a strong argument to be made about productivity and about happiness in the workplace in terms of addressing issues of gender pay gaps. That is what the Bill is attempting to do, bringing in an agency of the State to ensure that the gender pay gap is addressed. It has been attempted in other jurisdictions, as has been outlined, and it has been successful.

While we appreciate the Government is not opposing the Bill, we were slightly disappointed by the Minister's speech, which pointed out the number of difficulties the Government has with it. That is okay, however. We can work together to iron out these things and we can move forward together in a collaborative fashion. Gender equality is a real issue in every workplace and in every facet of Irish society and Senator Bacik and the Labour Party group are bringing forward practical, reasonable and sustainable measures that will make a difference in the long run.