Alice-Mary Higgins (Independent) | Oireachtas source

It is amendment No. 2. We are speaking only on amendment No. 2. Those were simply clarifications of the Minister's speech.

On amendment No. 2, unfortunately, the Minister did not comment on her views on baseline data. We have been hearing at length that this is a pilot. We have been hearing ideas as to what might be done. We need to be very clear on the messages the Minister has given today with regard to one year's growth, what is or is not included and where it will be targeted. None of this is currently in the legislation. At present, the legislation gives clear and wide permission, and none of the constraints or the concerns on which we have heard very welcome suggestions from the Minister are in the legislation before the House. We need to be very clear. It is imperative that the Minister puts what she is saying here in the Chamber into the legislation. We have a very wide divide at the moment between stated policy intent and the legislation that is before the House.

There is also a concern when we talk about a pilot. We have not really heard what is the intention of the pilot. Why are we doing a pilot on cutting? What is the urgency? We know that road safety can be addressed elsewhere. What is the driver? What is the Minister's perspective as Minister for Arts, Heritage, Regional, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs? What is the major heritage concern in rural areas that is driving this intrusion into our wildlife legislation? It is a template that has stood for a long time and has been copied across Europe and in the UK. We need to know why we are doing this pilot, and the case for doing it needs to be strong. There is a key concern. The Minister talks about science and such, but she is still talking about assessing the impacts. If we do not have a baseline, we do not know how to assess the impacts.At present, there is no provision for baseline data gathering. If, in two years' time, we simply say here is the situation now for whatever species may have expired or still be there, there will be no indication as to from where we have come or what we may have lost. As I have said before and I will not repeat it in the Chamber, we know from the people who write to us and who monitor nature in their own areas that they have seen what has been lost already. What about a baseline? The Minister has not made provision for a baseline or indicated for a baseline. Amendment No. 2 is separate to our general provision. We have put forward very reasonable and appropriate scientific terms under which a baseline could be conducted so we know what is the biodiversity in our hedgerows right now, what is the nature of our hedgerows, what is there and what species are there. We have information from the UK, which has done this research, and it is very interesting that when the UK conducted research on its hedgerows and looked at its baselines and impacts, it decided to change and copy our legislation because it was better. It decided to remove August from the period of cutting and burning. We also need to be clear that there needs to be freedom.

The Minister mentioned assessment. At no point in the legislation do we have clarity on what assessment will be published, where it will be shared and how we will all be able to talk about what has happened during the two year period. There is no plan for the pilot at present. There is no specification. It is not simply enough for the Minister to ask for blanket permission to invent a pilot. The pilot cannot be all of Ireland and the Minister needs to set out what proportion of Ireland will be covered and not covered. The Minister is giving assurances which, sadly, I do not believe she is in a position to give, that no wildlife will be affected. We just do not know this unless we have the data and the science.

I welcome the Minister's comments on grubbing. That is dealt with in amendment No. 3. I imagine the Minister plans to accept our amendment on grubbing and destroying. I also welcome the Minister's comments on flailing. I note we will have an opportunity in this regard, if the Minister is genuinely serious about addressing issues of grubbing and flailing, as amendments to section 10 look to strengthen and set out regulations in respect of both of these practices.

I will not speak to the substance of section 8 until we come to the next group of amendments. Will the Minister indicate whether she will accept the amendment on a baseline? Will she put forward her own amendment on a baseline on Report Stage?