Kieran O'Donnell (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister for coming in for this debate. I want to make a few points and pose a few questions to the Minister.

I first came across Sergeant Maurice McCabe when I was a member of the Committee of Public Accounts at the time he sought to appear before it. Many were reluctant for him to appear. I felt strongly that it should not go to a vote and we collectively as a group would meet him. I am glad that reason prevailed and that he came in and appeared before us. That was my first engagement and contact with Sergeant McCabe.

The questions I want to pose are as follows. Had the McCabes not submitted a freedom of information request, would this information have ever come to light? It is stark that a family was exposed. That question must be posed. There must be a defined timescale on the HIQA report. Are the terms of reference set at this point and what exactly are they? One of the main issues is that one must separate corporate governance from the individuals involved in Tusla. In my experience, in all organisations, most staff are doing their best but clearly, one must question this cut and paste error.It defies credibility. Clearly, in terms of corporate governance, there are major problems with the organisation. If Tusla is not fit for the purpose then the Minister must consider whether it should be disbanded.

As Senator Kelleher emphasised earlier, on a daily basis we deal with people. In cases where children are at risk we deal with parents who are under enormous pressure and we try to strike a balance. In most cases taking children from parents is a measure of last resort. What happens if people do not have confidence in the system? I fundamentally believe that children should be with their mother or father, or parents. If that cannot be the case then we must have a system that we can trust.

When did the Minister meet Garda Keith Harrison and Marissa Simms?