Victor Boyhan (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I welcome the Minister of State to the House. I thank Sinn Féin for using the party's time to highlight this important issue. The kernel of the Sinn Féin case is clearly set out in the motion. A total of 632,000 patients were on published and unpublished hospitals waiting lists at the end of January 2017. Under the current waiting list system, waiting lists for outpatient appointments, diagnostic tests and day case and inpatient procedures vary drastically. Sinn Féin has set out all of this so I do not intend to repeat the substance of the motion.

I am sorry the Minister did not wait in the House a little longer although I know he has other pressing issues. We have to get down to some basics. RTE broadcast a programme called "RTE Investigates: Living On The List". We saw the Minister on television. He was not in the studio. By arrangement he had a private off-site interview with RTE. He talked about being ashamed and heartbroken. We were all ashamed and heartbroken. I am interested in hearing the progress of every individual who was on the list waiting for treatment as a result of that programme. Words are no good if we are not going to get something done. The RTE programme brought home the genuine pain and suffering of patients who have been waiting for far too long for treatment.

We heard what the Minister had to say. I understand the Minister has directed the National Treatment Purchase Fund to audit its practices in hospitals. We need to look at the National Treatment Purchase Fund. I want to declare an interest at this point. I served as a director of the National Treatment Purchase Fund. I know very well the workings of the National Treatment Purchase Fund. I am no longer involved but I was there in the beginning. The role of the fund has changed substantially, from an independent organisation doing a good deal of work to one that changed substantially under the regime of Senator Reilly when he was Minister for Health. When Senator James Reilly came into that office, he decided to scale it down. He brought it in and called it the special delivery unit. It was under his direct auspices in the Department.

The kernel of the trouble with the National Treatment Purchase Fund – I do not suggest there is any trouble with those in the fund – is the relationship between the fund, the HSE, which seems to be at the kernel of most problems in the health service, and the Minister. The sooner the National Treatment Purchase Fund can validate its records independently and without any interference from anyone, the better. That would be a good day's work.

We need to be clear on something. Why were there a number of lists? It is important that lessons are learned from that programme. RTE did us a service. However, it is terrible that families have to go on live television and pour out their suffering as a result of the waiting lists. The relationship between the HSE, the National Treatment Purchase Fund and the Minister needs to be cleared up. Ultimately, it is about treating those waiting the longest better as well as speeding up the waiting times.

I have no hang-ups or ideology about private versus public sector. The people who were on that programme are not especially interested in whether it is private health care, private hospitals or public hospitals. They want the best medical procedures for them at this time in the course of their health issues. That is important. If we have to source beds from the private sector, then let us source beds in the short term. Of course we would love a full public system that could cope with all the demands and waiting lists for people. Clearly, we have a problem there. We need extra capacity. Why do we have a situation whereby capacity beds are shut in public hospitals? People talk about capacity. We need more nurses and bed capacity. It has to be done. We cannot keep cutting back bed capacity.

Ultimately, the public are sick of the system and the amount of money invested in public health. Successive Ministers from all groups and none have been unable to crack the kernel of the issue and the problems in the health sector.

It is important we embrace information technology. How can we manage these lists? How can we put systems in place to produce one clear list? Is it not possible, when a patient is put on a list, that the patient can have an individual tracking number? The idea is that to overcome data protection issues, confidentiality and so forth the patient could access this tracking number and see where he or she is placed. The patient could have reasonable confidence about moving in the right direction for an elective procedure or any other procedure. We have to get a system and embrace technology. The Government is going to have to fund the technology to enable this to be brought together in terms of the listing system.

I could go on but I do not intend to. We need to improve the situation of the National Treatment Purchase Fund and its relationship with the Minister. Perhaps the Joint Committee on Health should examine this. We need an organisation that is completely stand-alone and separate from the Minister for Health and the HSE.